UPS and CITES trouble

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by TJR, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. TJR

    TJR Junior Member

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    This is part of the problem, the seller didn't at any point tell me that any import licence would be my responsibility, and every time i told them that UPS had told me it was they said that it must be a confusion and that they would sort it out with UPS.

    The whole CITES regulations seem to be an absolute mess, and any guidelines i can find are also contradicted everywhere. I've checked everything and i seem to be in the clear. If/When it does get seized i can apply for my goods to be returned and perhaps i have a case here, but by the time that would be either accepted or declined it would be too late to file for a chargeback.

    Sorry that my post was too long for you. I felt that giving all the information i had on this matter may be helpful to anyone else facing similar problems in the future. As others have said, if it was too long or in depth for you then you didn't have to read or respond at all. I understand what you're saying but as my original post said if i don't get my money back then i simply can't afford to make another purchase of this size. Thanks for your response and all the best.
     
  2. chasenblues

    chasenblues Senior Member

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    Who is the retailer.
     
  3. Tone deaf

    Tone deaf Senior Member

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    That sucks.
     
  4. ToneasaurusRex

    ToneasaurusRex Silver Supporter

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    TJR,

    No reason to apologize, mate, it's a worthwhile story to tell. I read many more threads than I reply. His underwear must be too tight.

    I would fight back. Make noise. Call responsible government officials, the vendor, the shipping company. Call the press, call the BBC News. If I saw a headline like "Man Does Nothing Wrong, Still Loses £2000 AND His Guitar In CITES Case," well, I would stop what I was doing to read it.

    You did nothing wrong, nothing worse than what any of us do who consume products made of wood. It's not as if you smuggled a fretboard into the UK in your luggage.

    Don't just accept this.
     
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  5. ToneasaurusRex

    ToneasaurusRex Silver Supporter

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    And another thought. If you identify the retailer and some of us make noise on your behalf, maybe we can make an impact.

    If companies with a stake in this business feel like they will lose sales to this BS, they will influence the situation.
     
  6. Tim Plains

    Tim Plains Senior Member

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    Definitely go through your credit card and request to reverse the charge.
    Do you have anything in writing from the retailer that they will handle the paperwork? If so, provide it to your credit card company and cite that document that states the seller is responsible. If you used PayPal, it may be easier to get a refund.
     
  7. bossaddict

    bossaddict Premium Member

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    That really sucks. I hope it does work out for you at the last minute. Please do keep us updated.

    Also, welcome to the forum!
     
  8. Kashmir

    Kashmir Senior Member

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    Sucks.
     
  9. fleahead

    fleahead Senior Member

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    Man, this has been on my mind so much. Many times I have thought about chucking all the shit here, move to Italy and just bar hop playing U.S. blues. But I have to have Patty Lou, all there is to it. And now, I know that's all for $hit now thanks to CITES.

    I can only imagine touring musicians and the $hit that they and their management have to go through now.
     
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  10. Bill Hicklin

    Bill Hicklin Senior Member

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    Next time you meet an environmentalist, punch him in the face.
     
  11. rockstar232007

    rockstar232007 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't trust UPS to handle a guitar, let alone have/handle the necessary paperwork to deliver one to another country.

    Sorry you have to deal with this, but the brunt of the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the seller.

    Hope it all works out, be it you actually get the guitar, or a full-refund.
     
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  12. azzapeel

    azzapeel Senior Member

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    I'm with geddy on this one. Something is fishy. Hope you get it sorted. There are many scammers out there.
     
  13. CRobbins

    CRobbins Premium Member

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    I'm sorry to hear about this. What a load of carp. Good luck.:dude::dude:
     
  14. Greco

    Greco Senior Member

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    I just read this on the USACG website. Pretty much sums up - even if you do everytihng right, you're still screwed. The global system, or lack thereof, is broken. I've personally given up on rosewood all together.

    "International Rosewood export suspended

    We regret that we will no longer export Rosewood products outside of the U.S.A.

    We really did try to make it work.

    We met the challenge of the new CITES ruling head on, being one of the first guitar companies to receive the permit. We spent countless hours working with government agencies to wade through all the paperwork, trying to make sense of the rules and restrictions.

    We worked out the logistics and cost of getting each item inspected and certified, but the bureaucracy and excessive time required to process rosewood for export turned out to be more than we could have imagined.

    Delays in processing forced our international customers to endure months of waiting, and when the product finally arrived at their country, even with what was supposedly the proper paperwork, there were some instances where their items were still held or confiscated by customs officials.

    If the worldwide governmental agencies can get a firm grasp on how the rules are interpreted, we will revisit this, but for now, we will no longer export Rosewood products outside of the U.S.A.

    Any existing orders for Rosewood will be processed and shipped, but new no orders will be accepted.

    Thanks for your continued support."
     
  15. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    Charlie Foxtrot....
     
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  16. DRF

    DRF Senior Member

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    Blame China, you can squeak and squawk all you want but...bureaucracy. China processes 300 giant rosewood trees an HOUR. Apparently Chinese have something about Rosewood.

    I'm about to ship a guitar to the U.S and I'm a little worried even though all the wood was bought in the states. UPS is cheaper than Can post by a lot and I...really hate that.
     
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  17. staffy

    staffy Senior Member

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    So how do we get a new guitar in Australia ? If I come to US and personally buy one can I take it back home on a plane ? Or am I then subject to the whole cavity search to see if I've got a rosewood bridge stashed as well? What about if for example I purchased that beautiful Koa top lp that's been hangin around in the mlp classifieds for far too long, does anybody know where I would stand??
     
  18. Greco

    Greco Senior Member

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    Yep. I wouldn't mind so much if this was just Brazilian rosewood - but Indian rosewood? It's just not worth it. There's no great mystical quality about Indian rosewood. Until all this it was basically wooden dogshit.
     
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  19. staffy

    staffy Senior Member

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    Whiskey tango foxtrot !
     
  20. JimBobTTD

    JimBobTTD Senior Member

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    I hate to be the bearer of bad news...the seller has done the right thing. You have not.

    The seller needs to get an export licence. You need to get an import licence. As it says here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cites-imports-and-exports :

    Application process
    Applications are required for CITES listed species for the following:

    • import into and (re-) export from the European Union
    • the commercial use of any specimen listed on Annex A to the regulations within the EU
    • movement of specimens within the EU where there has been a previous movement restriction imposed

    So you should have applied for an import licence. The seller will have told you that all is well and you should then have asked for the paperwork. With this paperwork, you would have been able to apply for an import licence. When this was granted, the seller could have sent the guitar to you and you would have received it.

    Avoid looking at forum posts for advice on CITES. Go to the government who have the right information.

    I am in the same position. I am still awaiting my import licence - it has been almost six weeks. I looked all over the internet and found conflicting information...including stories of people who had not bothered with any paperwork and had received things with no problem. This is a lottery. But I think you have a one in a million chance of winning, not the other way around. So what did I do? I phoned the government (I am a Brit in Sweden, so I called the Swedish authority) and made them walk me through the application process.

    Tl;dr - buyer has tried to import the guitar without following the correct procedure.
     

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