Tube amps are on borrowed time

Discussion in 'Amp Modeling' started by Mr Insane, Aug 13, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,143
    Likes Received:
    1,884
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Nice!!

    The CAE 3+ is a three channel tube preamp that was made by Bob Bradshaw at Custom Audio Electronics (CAE). It is called the 3+ because it was a three channel preamp, and the "+" was because it was an updated version with some extra/tweaked features. I played one once. It was a cool preamp.

    You know, I totally don't get it. I have always been into recording. I remember spending FOREVER setting up mics, running cables, making tweaks...recording a song, and having the guitar track sound horrible compared to the rest, or having too much mud between the drums and guitar. Of course, I was still in the learning phase and am a WAY better engineer these days than I used to be, but still....

    Man, when the first POD came out, it was an INVALUABLE tool in the studio. Sure, it lacked in a lot of areas - but, I was a hard rocker. I could pull up a good driven sound, plug it in, and once ALL the other tracks were added, that "lowly" POD sound clear, crisp and a million times better than my cab mic'd in a small room with ONE SM57. Did it sound exactly like my real amp? Hell no, BUT it sounded better in a track than my real amp.

    For me, having a small recording space, NOTHING makes more sense for creativity than using a modeler. That's why I do. When inspiration strikes I'd rather record my ideas and flesh them out than play engineer. When I do sessions, the "artist" is usually HAPPIER that I am using a modeler because then they aren't paying for "engineering hours". Shoot, I did a session about a month ago where the studio owner/producer/engineer (whatever) already HAD a DI set up for me running amplitube. I just plugged in, we dialed up a sound that worked for ME and recorded my track DI. He and the "artist" would figure out the guitar sound after the songs were DONE. All they needed was my playing. I did some leads/noodles on five songs, got paid and left!! All I brought was a guitar and a cable (I am weird about ONLY using MY cable in the studio, lol).

    Live? I get the hesitance despite the advantages. Using/switching to a modeler in the live arena is a much bigger deal. We, as guitarists, are stuck in thinking the old way is the best way. Sometimes I MISS the massive amounts of moving air behind me. I STILL feel weird sometimes setting up a box on a stand and running a PA wedge behind me. The amount of attention I get WHILE setting up is crazy. There is A LOT of talk from other guitarists about how crappy I am gonna sound - luckily I know better because it is a serious mind f****ing. Of course, after the set many of those naysayers come and talk to me about the rig. Answering their questions reminds me of the mental block I had regarding computer recording. I could NOT fathom how it could be as good or better than analog recording.....

    Buut, yeah....recording at 4am and getting a good tone? Awesome!!
     
    frankv likes this.
  2. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    13,903
    Likes Received:
    11,945
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Thanks for the info and education on the CAE. You see how much I pay attention to what the preset is called or how it's made. I couldn't care less. I turn the dial and if I like it I play it.

    YOU ARE SPOT ON Regarding recording. If ANYONE wants to improving their playing recording is paramount to ones education. I WISH I kept all the outtakes I recorded years ago. I would love to listen today. It's the best way to see your improvement.

    Not only is recording an extension of creativity, it also serves as a depository of riffs and progressions that one stumbles upon when practicing. We all know what it means to be playing randomly and a riff comes out. Hours later you simply can't phrase it exactly as you did when you found it. Recording with the AXE has given me such an incredible tool. One I could never duplicate with any tube amp. All I need to do to record anything is hit the record button in Ableton suite 9 that I happen to be using. All that is hooked up is a simple USB cable from my AXE to my computer. Incredible.

    The arguments about this model not sounding exactly like that tube amp is just freaking ridiculous and getting worse by the minute. We as modelers often get caught up in trying to "defend" the tones coming out of our tools. That is just dumb. Let start talking about what MUSIC is created with the tools, be it modeler or tube amp. Then we can really see the men from the boys. We did this in another thread started by Cherry. Know what happened? I believe my recorded clips and tracks were the best sounding in the entire thread. My opinion but that what I thought. I am no engineer. All I did to record anything was pull up a preset and hit record. You had guys in that thread in a full studio creating clips that sounded OK but did not have the punch or presence that my AXE did.

    Anyone want to debate in a serious way. Post your freaking clips and lets hear your opinion. I think that is way better and more entertaining for the lurkers then listening to strangers on the internet voice their uneducated opinions without a single shred of experience to draw from other then others YouTube videos.

    And that's why tube amp days are numbered.

    RANT OVER
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  3. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,143
    Likes Received:
    1,884
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Thanks, man!! HAHAHA, no matter what I do these days, I am only an "Effective" teacher. The profession HAS changed too much. I pity the students with all of the "data" and standardized tests. It is NOTHING like when I started, which was NOTHING like the quality education I received from the same district. Sucks, but for whatever reason the powers that be seem to think it's better...

    As far as playing....I am finding as I get older my playing seems to feel more "natural" when I am doing a smooth jazz/light fusion/progressive thing. I have officially reached the point where hard rock guitar playing has gotten boring. All the latest songs I have written for the band have been vetoed because they are too complicated, lol. I have tried to dumb it down a little, but end up with stuff that is a little too "punky" for the band. It's weird. Here's an example....I think I posted it before. My band heard this and looked at me weird, lol....

    https://soundcloud.com/mdenman/dt-new-idea-1

    Oh, and I used a lowly POD 2.0 for the tracks on this demo. There is no bass because I wanted the bassist to have freedom to develop his own parts. I may just end up finishing it as an instrumental - cut some parts, shorten others up, develop some melodies. OR, more likely, it'll just get lost in the "song idea" abyss, lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    frankv, drew365 and cherrysunburst00 like this.
  4. pnuggett

    pnuggett Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,512
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    I offered my opinion on the YT video. If you don't agree fine.
    Check the thread and see what I have said about the Kemper. Not once have I dissed it. I've said it's really great gear. Your intolerance to anything slightly in contrast to your overly defensive opinions is unbelievable. Your contentiousness is inappropriate.

    Regarding my "saving" comment you should check your shoes. I think you stepped into something there. Another prolific poster stated many posts ago that 'tubes won't be around as long as you think'.

    Again, because you can't seem to get it through your brain, I think modeling gear for the most part is great and should continue to gain market share for numerous reasons. I don't believe they will bring a death to tube amps any time soon. Can you live in peace with that?[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  5. cherrysunburst00

    cherrysunburst00 Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,185
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    I love it. Great stuff. Hey Bro, in your previous post, I didn't take it personal, but I appreciate that you said it wasn't directed at me.

    I really really strive not to dis modelling.

    Funny, Hearing the righteous stuff y'alls are posting could very easily make a guy like me hesitate to post. Y'alls are good.

    Yet, YOU, Frank, encouraged me so much earlier this year to post that I did.

    I understand that the guys 'round deez parts are not mean. They are harsh on themselves, but not mean to other guys with the gumption to post something.

    I also like to just play covers, so it can be a bit intimidating
     
    frankv likes this.
  6. pnuggett

    pnuggett Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,512
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Not into recording. Does that mean I'm not allowed to have opinions or comments here? I didn't think that was a requirement to post.
     
  7. pnuggett

    pnuggett Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,512
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Untrue.
     
  8. cherrysunburst00

    cherrysunburst00 Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,185
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    I liked it. A lot. If your guys are more traditional hard rock guys, I think I can understand their trepidation. But me, I dug it. Doesn't seem "punky" to me, but I'd say a bit more "modern"? I don't know if it's the right term or not, but it had lots of dissonant (?) sounds.

    Like I said, though, I really enjoyed it. I love guitar period.

    It said PRS guitar and JCM 800 in the link. And in the above post, you said POD. Am I missing something?
     
  9. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,143
    Likes Received:
    1,884
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    HAHAHAHA, JCM800 model in the 2.0 ;)
     
    cherrysunburst00 likes this.
  10. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,143
    Likes Received:
    1,884
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    [/QUOTE]

    :)

    I (do not) stand corrected. Live an let live, my friend. Carry on with your contrarian ways, I shall no longer waste energy on your post and or opinions. Can you live in peace with THAT?

    I look forward to the day where you offer something beneficial. Until then, peace....and I truly mean it. :)
     
  11. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,622
    Likes Received:
    21,541
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Mark Agnessi is making fun of us modeling guys today. :p

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Liam

    Liam V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    5,940
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    60's and up to mid 70's, even late 70's, but 2203 and 2204 shared the same PCB, and are quite a bit more consistent in build from about '79 onwards (when they finally ran out of mustard caps... ;)). But the power and output transformers, and the amount of filtering give the amps a very different feel from each other. Never sure I have ever quite nailed it with the Axe, but you can definitely get a 2204 model feeling a lot more 2203ish.

    Liam
     
    RAG7890 likes this.
  13. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

    Messages:
    12,525
    Likes Received:
    18,406
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    mdubya likes this.
  14. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,143
    Likes Received:
    1,884
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Yes. They were a part of the final three of my speaker choices. I ended up passing on this because it sounded too good, lol. I knew I wanted a specific sound for my live playing, and the EV ZLX12P got me there better. The QSC was WAY flatter, and much more neutral. If I was in a cover band, and needed super accurate reproduction, the QSC would have been my choice. However, I liked the slight "midrange" coloration of the EV.
     
    RAG7890 likes this.
  15. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,622
    Likes Received:
    21,541
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    I've got the K8. I will expand my thoughts later, after a few zzzz's.

    I bought mine because I thought matthew bear's sounded so good and he liked his very much.

    More later.
     
    RAG7890 and cherrysunburst00 like this.
  16. cherrysunburst00

    cherrysunburst00 Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,185
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    I'll bet that ES LP sounds killer thru your FX 8!
     
    Pop1655 and mdubya like this.
  17. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,622
    Likes Received:
    21,541
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    It does. Very good. I was getting double tones out of the MHS Custom Buckers tonight. :shock:
     
    cherrysunburst00 likes this.
  18. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    13,903
    Likes Received:
    11,945
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Take it easy man. You are a high strung one.. I was just asking if you have your own music that you could post. I like to hear what others are playing.
     
  19. Splattle101

    Splattle101 V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    8,599
    Likes Received:
    4,050
    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    That's interesting that you've selected the EVs because you like the way they colour the sound. The techies for Metallica said something very similar about the Matrix amps, too. The first bloke in that vid said something along the lines of, 'They're really guitar friendly, they colour the sound the right way for guitar,' or similar.

    I note that you need your rig for live work, and the dudes for Metallica were obviously describing a live rig, too. Is this something common to setups for live work, or is it a common approach more generally among modeller players?
     
  20. matthew bear

    matthew bear Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,974
    Likes Received:
    4,158
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    They sound good to me, but I have the K8's. I can't elaborate on it much except to say my end result is pleasing.
     
    RAG7890 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page