Top Secret Wiring of the Pros !

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by Ilya-v, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. dpgumby

    dpgumby Senior Member

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    With standard strat wiring I don't think it can be done. This sort of treble bleed would create a looped connection from one tone control to the other and they would interact with each other in what would probably be an undesirable way.

    If you still want a treble bleed, a conventional type (parallel or series) between the volume pot wiper/pickup signal side would work OK.
     
  2. rytenuff

    rytenuff Junior Member

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    Ah! Thanks for that. I had a feeling it wouldn't be straight forward.
    The LP is a far easier guitar to tinker with, electrics wise. Four screws out and you're in. You can even have the electrics (pots) out on the bench and still hear what effect your tinkering changes make to the sound.
     
  3. KrankyKarl

    KrankyKarl Junior Member

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    How would all of this work on a LP double cutaway? Two volumes one tone, pretty much the same as a flying V.
    Thanks, Dan
     
  4. Emiel

    Emiel Senior Member

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    Sounds very interesting. I tried the '50 wirings before and didn't like the way the pots behaved and it seems to lose some fatness too!

    So this 'tapered bleed' modern wiring is for if you want the full sound of modern wiring and retain highs when you dial back the volume pot?

    EDIT: just bought all the parts, will try as soon as I got my new set of pickups.
     
  5. cowie86

    cowie86 Junior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I know it's not good form to revive an old post but I was wondering if someone could tell me whether this wiring diagram is workable. I've asked two of the original posters about it but they've not got back to me. I believe it's the OPs mods incorporated into a independent volume wiring.

    Thanks very much to anyone who tells me this makes sense or not!

    http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/cowie86/BestWiring2independentvol_zps98e52153.jpg
     
  6. Ilya-v

    Ilya-v Member

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    Man, I LOVE my Les Paul copy. :slash:

    First post in 4 years... :thumb:
     
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  7. if6was9

    if6was9 Senior Member

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    Much thanks to you, the OP! I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and have used the information to rewire my 2 guitars.
     
  8. pierret

    pierret Junior Member

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    Hi Ilya, Korus and all

    I' ve read all posts here with interest. All objections and so forth. Seems the detractors to what Ilya has offered have not tried it, just criticized as too complicated.

    Then I took out the iron and soldered it myself as Ilya is showing. On a Telecaster and on a LP.
    I had previously installed the 50s wiring on all my guitars, with mixed results. Specially on Fenders, the volume drop when rolling off the tone knob had always bothered me.
    On LP, it was so so, but passable on one.
    My other LP has modern wiring, which seems ok but not great since it has a linear tone pot.

    The results of this new and improved Ilya drawing : very good. The Tele especially, is a lot better off this way than on either previous stock wiring.
    On the LP it is also working flawlessly. On this one I also installed the 150k bleed resistor on the volume knob. I can only say, perfect. I must applaud loudly, especially with the jeers Ilya has received.
    The other LP has a wiring that Deaf Eddie published on his site, which is very good, with 4 push-pull pots. So it is REALLY busy in the cavity. The tone pots are wired modern. Only problem is, the push-pull are linear as I said. these only act from 0 to 4, the rest has no taper to speak of.
    It may be good to try Ilya's idea there too, but I need dainty finger to scrummage around there. Can someone comment whether this would improve the linear tone taper ?
    At any rate, bravo Ilya, I am grateful you showed us your idea, you rock !
     
  9. korus

    korus Senior Member

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    Taper of a linear taper pot can be altered to be closer to audio taper - a resistor between middle and ground lug. Unfortunately, it would make the resultant value of a pot at '10' - less than it was without a resistor.
    For a 500k pot with 220k resistor, taper would be pretty much OK, but resultant value of a altered pot it would be ~ 152k. And that is simply not enough to make it usable as vol pot in any guitar with passive electronics - no highs and no high mids whatsoever.

    So, you should get 500k audio taper push-pull pots.

    useful link : http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
     
  10. pierret

    pierret Junior Member

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    Ok Korus, interesting, that is why you dont recommand the resistor between the vol pot lugs that was on Ilya's drawing ? (the taper mod)
     
  11. johnh

    johnh Senior Member

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    I'm glad to see this thread is still alive, after 4 years!

    Early in the thread, there is a reference to a spreadsheet that I wrote called GuitarFreak. I'd like to let you guys know that I have developed this much further, now at version 4.03. You can see it and download it for free here:

    http://guitarnuts2.*********.com/th...ncy-response-calculator?page=1&scrollTo=32056

    http://guitarnuts2.*********.com/board/18/reference-articles

    (EDIT: damn - cant make a working link..any ideas? Google "guitarfreak spreadsheet" will find it)


    It now does many different types of tone control, including TBX, varitone and several others, all in either modern or 50's wiring configuration. It also does bass and treble control such as G&L PTB. As before, it will handle most types of treble bleed arrangement too. For Ilya's design as discussed here, it could do it at particular settings, by adjusting treble bleed components to give a mixed series/parallel arrangement.

    I used it to home in on what I think is the best treble control system, and for me its a modern wiring with treble bleed, with 150k and 1nF on a 500k pot.

    Anyway, do take a look at the spreadsheet. It was written in Excel 2007, also downsaved to Excel 97-2003. I am told it also works well in a recent libreoffice suite.

    cheers
    John
     
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  12. Beef

    Beef Junior Member

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    This wiring scheme rocks. Thanks for sharing!

    Some may view my latest guitar project as an act of sacrilege on a Les Paul forum, but here goes...

    I had a Carvin CS6 laying around. I loved the way it plays, but the stock S22 pickups were a bit TOO warm and smooth sounding for my taste. I like some jangle and bite in my tone, so I swung it in the other direction with some TV Jones Classics. I figured I'd try some wiring mods from this forum while I had the guitar pulled apart. Glad I did. For the tone circuit, I tried just wiring a .001 capacitor between the volume and tone pots, but this yielded too much brightness as the volume gets rolled down. A 150K resistor in series solved that problem nicely. I also did the star grounding mod I found on another thread here, making this thing super quiet.

    I'm really happy with the results. The volume controls only affect the volume, with no funky interactions with the tone controls, and no loss of treble as I roll down the knob. The tone controls only affect the treble response, with no funky interactions with the volume knobs. The "woman tones" are thick and bassy, but I get a nice glassy tone when I spin the knob the other way. In short, the controls act intuitively and the tones are natural no matter where I set the dials. Perfect!

    I'm VERY tempted to do this wiring on my SG. Thanks again!
     

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  13. mherrcat

    mherrcat Junior Member

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    Couple of quick questions if anyone is still monitoring this thread.

    In the original "alternate treble bleed/high pass circuit" (first attached image) the yellow wire is connected to lug #1 of the volume pot and the red wire to lug #2. Based on the other diagrams of the "50's wiring" and "Modern wiring" the yellow wire is the switch wire and the red wire is the pickup wire. So my questions are:

    Do the wire colors in the "alternate treble bleed" diagram correspond to the "50's" and "Modern" diagrams?

    Should I swap my input (pickup) and output (switch) wires on my volume pots?

    My volume pots are wired with the pickup to lug #1 and the switch to lug #2 (second attached image.) The "alternate treble bleed" is wired as shown on the diagram with no "R1" resistor. It seems to be working. I tried the 50's style wiring and it was doing something strange to the Vintage Taper volume pots I am using; there was a big drop off at about 8 and between 8 and about 2.5 there was almost no change. With the Modern wiring the volume taper smoothed out quite a bit; still a slight drop at 8, but a smoother, more obvious change from 8 down to 0.

    Thanks in advance!
     

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  14. mherrcat

    mherrcat Junior Member

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    Nevermind.

    I found the answer in an old (very) post on another forum. The yellow wire is the input to the volume pot; the red wire is the output to the switch. The color coding in the original diagram is backwards from the color coding in the "50's", "Modern", etc. diagrams floating around on the web...
     
  15. donP73

    donP73 Junior Member

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    I've read ALL the thread. Very interesting!

    Exscuse me if I'm resurrecting this discussion with my first post here,
    above all because my guitar is NOT a Les Paul... It's a dual humbucker (Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz set) but with only 1 master volume, 1 master tone & 3 way toggle switch. In addiction I added two ON/ON/ON mini switches (one per pickup) to select series/single coil/parallel mode combinations.

    I would ask Ilya-v if I can put the same R2 & C2 values on my guitar or I'd consider other values, in consideration of the fact I have only two pots (instead of 4).

    Other question: I've read in many guitar-wirings forums that the best combination is Logaritmic pots for Volume and Linear pots for Tone... in this thread, instead (if I've understand it well), it seems you are talking about using ALL audio taper (logaritmic) pots, also for Tone pots... is it right?

    Thank you if you'll find time to answer me.
     

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