Top Secret Wiring of the Pros !

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by Ilya-v, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. freejus

    freejus Senior Member

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    so much anger in this thread...
     
  2. GBLEV

    GBLEV Senior Member

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    I can't help but wonde,r what happened to all of the clips that were suppose to show up in this thread, with this "modern resistor wiring" set up? I was actually hoping to hear some good analog clips, through a real amp. Did it turn out not to be as good as advertised, so nobody wanted to waste their time with recording some? What happened to the "end all, be all" of wiring?
    I after reading this thread and the lack of evidence, it looks like it turned out to be a bust. Besides, It seems, that adding all of the extra componets, you would have to expect the signal to suffer somewhat, when compared to those wiring techniques without all of the resistors. Thus, loosing some clairity.

    On the other hand, Jonesy clips that have the 50's wiring, seem to sound pretty good, even through this computer, via youtube. It probably doesn't represent how good they actually sound in real life, but you can hear enough to have a good idea to know what the 50's wiring is all about.
     
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  3. Greg's Guitars

    Greg's Guitars Senior Member

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    Kinda reminds me in the book " Fender Amps, The Soul Of Tone "
    where longtime Fender employee and designer / tech is arguing with the "new " CBS amp guys over a crappy solid state "new" Fender amp design...

    Fender CBS amp designer.."But look at the sine wave it's what the kids want"

    Lifelong original Fender amp designer.." But it sounds like sheeet"

    Fender CBS amp designer" but look at the sine wave it's what the kids want....


    and to bump Jonesy, Every client of mine that I have sent his way for wiring kits / mods have always been more than satisfied.
     
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  4. GBLEV

    GBLEV Senior Member

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    I think I know where he got the idea from, it comes from a spanish website about modding pointemeters instead of getting new ones with different values, here's the link in english:

    Google Traductor

    I actually stumbled onto this link from another link that was posted in here called "50's wiring in a nutshell" It sounds like fun to do if you got an old guitar and you like to tinker, but I think I would rather just go out and get some good pots instead.

    I was doing research on different kinds of wiring, as I had just bought some electrical upgrades from RS, and I decided it would best benefit me and my guitar to go with the 50's style of wiring. Which I hope I will be picking up tomorrow from the tech.
     
  5. Randy K

    Randy K Senior Member

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    I'm bumping an old thread here with a question for the experts;

    I have the 50's wiring and just tried a 1nf cap and 220k resistor in series between the two lugs of the volume pot. It works great in maintaining the highs as I turn down the volume, however now the guitar does not clean up as well as it did before. Where (for example) 5 on the volume pot used to be relatively clean, it is now relatively crunchy. I don't get clean tones until 1 or 2 on the knob now, and at that point my volume is too low.

    Is this where I need another resistor to help with the taper of the pot (R1 in the diagram on page 1)? I've got an ES-335 and managed to install the treble bleed through the F hole, but won't be able to manage a complete rewire that way. I'm hoping to avoid pulling the whole harness....
     
  6. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    I you really have traditional 50's wiring then you shouldn't need the treble bleed mod with the cap and resistor on the volume pots to retain your highs as the volumes are rolled down. That is one of the main advantages of 50's wiring it does not get muddy like modern wiring does.
     
  7. Randy K

    Randy K Senior Member

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    Mine does :dunno:

    Maybe it doesn't get as muddy as modern wiring would, I've never compared. But I definitely lose highs as the volume is turned down. The treble bleed fixed that well enough, but now the taper seems off.
     
  8. Wraptail

    Wraptail Senior Member

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    Cool thread!

    Lots of info, alternative opinions, likes, dislikes... and disdain! ... but I think no disrespect.

    I love 50s wiring - "warts and all," ... actually, I love those warts. But I can also see how others would hate it.

    A friend has a few LPs with different wirings, trebles bleeds and so forth, and I've tried most of them. 50s wiring is still the Bee's knees for me!
    When I bought a new Heritage Les Paul I HATED the taper of the volume pots as well as everything else about the volume and tone pots. I called the dealer and he said lots of people like the modern wiring - including him. He told me to to try "50's wiring," as it sounded like that would achieve what I was looking for... and it did. That being said, I have a LP Junior copy that came with modern wiring and love the way it sounds so that's staying as is.

    It's great to have lots of options and you won't know if you like something until you try it yourself... and IMO you've got to live with any change for awhile to really know if you like it or not.

    And this stuff is the cheapest and easiest way to alter your tone and the dynamic response of your instrument. F@#k changing pickups... start here first.

    PS: I love the original pots in my burny LP. Don't know what they are, and they felt like they were going to fall apart when I pulled them to try some others - but they work great! They went right back in. Don't be afraid to use cheap stuff, you just might like it!!!
     
  9. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Hmm,. maybe try some 10% CT550K pot's, those have a smooth custom taper and add a lot of clarity especially when used for volume pots.
     
  10. stadams

    stadams Senior Member

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    Five pages and no objective comparisons? I guess someone will actually have to do some calculations and simulations to compare the wiring variation submitted in this thread versus 50's and modern styles. Anyone want to volunteer?
     
  11. siore

    siore Senior Member

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    Just try it for yourself. The wiring the OP presented works as described, and that's just what it is. Another way to wire your guitar.

    To wit:
    If you have 50's wiring, and not happy with it, try modern.
    If treble loss becomes an issue, wire a treble bleed cap across the volume pot.
    If you find treble bleed cap thins out your tone when you roll down volume AND tone too much, try wiring the cap across the volume and tone pot (see OP).
    If you're not happy with modern, try 50's wiring. Repeat and rinse.

    Obviously, the pot taper, values, cap values and type for both tone cap and treble bleed cap is variable, and somewhere along the way, you'll have to experiment.

    I've tried all those things, and happy to say, I'm good with the modified treble bleed mod up til now (I don't muck around with extra resistors, though). I just think with the way I play, it's the right fit. Kudos to frank falbo of the original jemsite post.

    Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

    :cheers:
     
  12. stadams

    stadams Senior Member

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    Okay, so I took a "few minutes," did a couple of calculations, ran a few simulations, and came up with the following results for the proposed wiring scheme in this thread. When I find some more time, I will complete the 50's and modern wiring schemes as well.

    I haven't been able to upload my findings to my MLP albums so, I had to open a photobucket account for the time being.

    Anyway, here is the originally proposed circuit without the additional resistor for modifying the volume potentiometer response. The simulation circuit uses a modeled humbucker as a signal source, a transmission line for guitar cable approximation with characteristic impedance and group delay considered, and a modeled load of a typical amplifier input.

    Multiple simulations were performed, however, six evenly spaced volume potentiometer values were selected for demonstration. Each of these simulations contains ten different tone potentiometer values adjusted from a maximum of 500K to a minimum of 0K logarithmically to approximate the actual tone pot taper. Tone circuit cutoff points are labeled for the 500K position and the "near" to 0K position. The idea being to show as the tone control is rolled back, the cutoff frequency is reduced, effectively rolling off the higher frequencies.

    One thing to be noted about this arrangement, is as the volume setting is lowered, the frequency response is extended, i.e. with the volume pot at 20%, the frequency response of the circuit has almost doubled from the 100% volume pot setting from 3.7kHz to 6.2kHz.

    Please comment if you see errors or need clarification.

    Here is the schematic:
    [​IMG]

    500K Volume Pot Simulation
    [​IMG]

    400K Volume Pot Simulation
    [​IMG]

    300K Volume Pot Simulation
    [​IMG]

    200K Volume Pot Simulation
    [​IMG]

    100K Volume Pot Simulation
    [​IMG]

    0K Volume Pot Simulation
    [​IMG]

    More Later,
     
  13. siore

    siore Senior Member

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    Interesting graphs. Thanks for sharing. Did you also do a run without the resistor? Or how it compares to conventional modern wiring with just the treble bleed cap across vol pot?
     
  14. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    I made these videos about 50's wiring showing how it works on my own SG. Having good quality CTS pots that read over 500K really helps with the clarity and these 10% CTS550K pots also have a smooth taper.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8T1YnJqn_I]Part 1 50s Wiring How It Works On My SG, Brandonwound PAF's - YouTube[/ame]


    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pD5vAZv8yU&feature=channel_video_title]Part 2 How 50s Wiring Works On My SG.mpg - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgyuffw-x1Q&feature=channel_video_title]Part 3 How 50s Wiring Works, Brandonwound PAF's in my SG - YouTube[/ame]
     
  15. stadams

    stadams Senior Member

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    Thanks. These simulations are without the resistor. My intentions, maybe tomorrow evening or Friday, is to do a few different variants of the Les Paul wiring schemes. Probably the standards, 50's, Modern, treble bleed, and I will run the previous sims with the volume "shunt" resistor. I did a few other simulations a couple of years ago and posted the results in

    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/38460-couple-typical-pickup-simulations.html

    I was just fleshing out the idea at that time. I have since spent some more time with it and have a reasonable understanding of the circuit behavior to say the least.
     
  16. axslinger

    axslinger Senior Member

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    Personally, I use a chocolate chip in place of the tone capacitor. It really helps get me that "brown sound"; all nice and gooey.
     
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  17. lespaul01

    lespaul01 Banned

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    necro fify
     
  18. rytenuff

    rytenuff Junior Member

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    I've done this treble bleed mod in my Vintage Les Paul type and like it.
    How would I go about incorporating this into a Strat type with normal 1 vol. and 2 tones?
    Thanks for any help.
     
  19. jimbob137

    jimbob137 Senior Member

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    surely the vol and tone knobs do the same in a strat as they do in a gibson. But youll only be having one tone pot to connect a resistor to:hmm:
     
  20. rytenuff

    rytenuff Junior Member

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    To get at the controls on my Strat type I have to remove 11 screws from the scratchplate, remove the strings, probably knackering them in the process, or 6 screws from the trem, 3 springs and 4 screws from the neck as the scratchplate is partly under the neck and won't allow the s/plate to come off with the neck still on.
    I don't want to go through all that, wire the treble bleed as I imagine it should go only to find I misguessed!
    I'd rather someone who was positive they knew what they were doing re. this mod pointed me in the right direction. :)

    ...and don't call me Shirley :thumb:
     

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