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Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by Ilya-v, Oct 8, 2010.
Will do Matt.
Are the Russian caps the ones I should use during testing or for final design?
If i read between your lines correctly, it could be both
You'll need 2 capacitors with a value of .022uf, ebay is a great source. I don't know what they cost but 5-7 bucks a pop maybe??
Check out the wiring library in the tonefreaks section and try the one called 50's wiring first.
Another great upgrade for a les paul copy is the wire to the toggle switch and your output jack. This is where they save money and we lose some mojo.
And as soon as it sounds great quit fixing it. It's a drug...
I assume the wire you describe should be shielded or heavier (20 or?) gauge?
I found a few kits that have 4 CTS audio taper 500k pots, switchcraft 3 way and input jack, shielded wire. The only difference is the caps are orange drop .022 uF and not PIO's.
Can anyone REALLY hear the difference between the orange drop and the PIO?
Nothing new to me here, though is there any insight into different caps in the bleed kit, PIO vs Ceramic vs Polly? Seems logical that a different material will retain different frequencies...no?
(something i plan to test out in the near future)
Im a new dog who still uses old tricks, my ibanez tele copy with 50's wiring and the Lyle star grounding method is just unstoppable, i think 50's wiring is harder to control at the fingers but when you understand how it reacts to your playing it can open a new dimention, modern seems boring and kind of dead in comparison, options in technique and response in modern style wiring seem limited compared to 50's and i feel no where near as many harmonics can be enhanced in the background of you tone, all IMHO of course.
Take off the training wheels, try 50's for more than a month - LOL
Please explain Lyle Star grounding method (diagram would be great).
Vendor here at MLP, Lyle Caldwell describes a few noise resistant methods by limiting ground loops to a minimum and some other stuff. A pic in there too for your les paul set up
I like the debate in this thread and will try this on one of my guitars. I don't trust the hearing though of those who can't hear the differences between caps. I can notice big differences especially in paper in oil and ceramic. I don't sell caps by the way and I've done a blind test with someone else changing the caps so I had no idea which cap was which but I could identify a number of them (and yes they were tested with a capacitor meter to make sure the values are the same). Some people (especially musicians exposed to loud music) lose the ability to hear certain frequencies which is why they can't hear the difference or their signal path may be bad - but hey if you can't hear it - you can't hear it.
I watched a video link I found here where different caps were tried including PIO. Being new to electrics and my hearing is not damaged, I could hear slight differences with most caps and a huge difference with the PIO. I'm not sure if the PIO sounds best. I may watch it a few times with head phones before changing my caps.
i know this is prolly dumb, but just double checking. if wiring for modern, independent volumes (with tr. bleed), exchange pup & switch wires (pup-> wiper, sw -> outer) @ vol pot, then bleed follows sw. to outer lug as well?
gonna get rs supers, so won't use taper resistor r1...
I love this thread. Taking out the treble bleed as the tone pot is rolled back is a brilliant idea. I'll have to try this sometime. Don't get me wrong, I like 50's wiring and still have the PIO's jonesy sent me before, but I can see and understand what these guys are after. The tone knob WILL have an effect on the volume levels, and there will be interaction depending on where you set each one of them. It's good for getting a lot of those vintage tones, but it can be frustrating as well for some, I'd imagine.
It's an attempt to make the vol/tone controls more intuitive... just a different approach. Kudos to the guys who push this wiring idea, I'd have missed it on the wiring library sticky. Thanks also for posting pics and soundclips, I have to say it looks really neat in the control cavity (some good soldering there).
Let's just try 'em both, and decide which one's better. It's good to keep an open mind with these things. Lyle Caldwell's thread on alternate grounding schemes (search:more grounding misconceptions) is also an eye-opener, and I enjoyed the info on there immensely.
"He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened." - nice quote posted earlier
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkXyYUOX8zk]YouTube - 50s Wiring & Fuzz Esquire demo.wmv[/ame]
WOW, that sounded incredible!!!!!
Thanks Nico, that's just old school 50's wiring & pure analog Fuzz
that clip is great !!
What a nice wiring scheme. I have it on my guitars now. I'd say it's a good alternative. And I'd leave it at that. Personally, I don't like the resistors there. What's important, I think, is to choose the right value treble bleed cap. I got 1nf (1000)pf on one guitar, and the other likes 180pf. Too big a value, and it gets unnaturally bright as you turn down the volume.
BTW, nice clip jonesy! I liked 50's wiring as well.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
This is one of the best threads I've seen on MLP, not only deserves a 'sticky' but a whole form of it's own
Actually it does. A PIO cap has inductance from it's mass that forms a LCR passive bandwidth filter. If you put a 50¢ inductor coil with the same inductance value in series with a ceramic cap it will do the exact same thing with better tolerance.
You and me too.
I kept the PIO cap in the tone circuit as well.
(hope its legal ).
After almost a year I don't see even a reference to this post in the
Wiring Library sticky. Pitty
and jonsey still tries hard to put modern wiring to shame.
Hey guys help me put this thread on the map... or at least link it on the Wiring Library sticky.