There is No Longer a Real Job known as LUTHIER

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by steve2, Nov 17, 2017.

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  1. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    If you know of someone who does this for a living , and nothing else, take a picture because that person will be dead pretty soon and they will be taking the job with them. there will always be people that fix guitars on a part time basis, and people will also make 1-off guitars.

    The violin business will be around for a long while, and that is what will happen to them.
     

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  2. JMT Guitars

    JMT Guitars Senior Member

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    Heads up guys- this is an inside tip off that we are officially out of stock on luthiers! Start buying all the Fenders, Gibsons, PRS' and any others you can afford because they are all CLOSING DOWN! THERE AREN'T ANY LUTHIERS LEFT!

    I tell a lie of course.

    This is just simply not true. Get some facts before you makes statements like this. I am literally at work right now and am five minutes walk away from my local luthier. There are lots of them on here too- we have a comprehensive thread of them! Granted they aren't on every street corner but then they never were.

    I'm gonna call troll here...
     
  3. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    His other post holds about as much troll action too......not to mention just as much uninformed rubbish.
     
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  4. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    Someody will buy the brands that Gibson Brands owns now, but things like this (Epiphone, Dobro, Valley Arts, Kramer, Steinberger, Tobias, Slingerland, Maestro, Baldwin, Hamilton, Chickering and Wurlitzer. Audio brands include: KRK Systems, TASCAM, Cerwin-Vega!, Stanton, Onkyo, Integra, TEAC, TASCAM Professional Software, and Esoteric) will be sold off to all sorts of other companies. Gibson, right now, owes 12 times yearly earnings before ebitda, so if you make $50k per year, and you end up with about $36k per year, it would be like you owing $600,000 in credit card debt (Gibson debt is classified as JUNK by Moodys) so they pay interest rates in the 18%-20% range. If you make $50k and owed $600k on your VISA card, one thing you can do is get a new credit card, and transfer the debt to that card, and then sometimes they give you a 0% or 2.9% rate for that year. That will help some, but the reality is that they owe way more than they will ever pay back, and the time to pay the piper is April 2018. You can Google all of this if you want. The Gibson Brand will remain, but the Memphis factory is gone now, and the U.S. factories will all be gone in 3 years regardless of who ends up owning the brand(s). This is far from troll nonsense, or a conspiracy to sell Gibson L-5's, Les Paul Standards, or whatever.
     
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  5. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    You can deny it for sure, especially if you only work in the guitar business, but Gibson is in real trouble, and they will be owned by a non-U.S. company soon. Fender will survive for a while anyway, but they owe almost 3 times EBITDA, so that would be like the $50k worker owing $125,000 on a VISA card. If you had a friend in that situation, You would say they are doomed and certain to file bankruptcy.
     
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  6. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    As long as there are guitars to be made......there will be jobs for luthiers. That being the definition of a luthier after all.
     
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  7. bluesriffdev

    bluesriffdev Senior Member

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    Who knew that when people require a service that doesn't exist, they'll just shrug their shoulders and think nothing of it? Doesn't supply follow demand? It's not like I went to university studying economics or anything, so I guess I don't know what I'm on about. Are you implying there's going to be no more guitar players, either?
     
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  8. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    British people are the last to know most things.
     
  9. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    There will still be luthiers, just as there are people that still sweep chimneys, make things from leather, deliver whole unpasteurized milk, and other obsolete jobs. The key word is REAL job. The job no longer pays enough for it to be the only job a person has.

    Gibson will be sold off with the rest of Gibson owned brands, but I am pretty sure there will be huge changes. The Memphis factory is sold, and they will be moving out inside of 2 years. The Chinese guitars are just as good or better, and there is simply no reason to make them in the U.S. any longer.

    A CNC mill doesn't know the nationality of the operator
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  10. JMT Guitars

    JMT Guitars Senior Member

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    Dude chimney sweeps are coming way back into demand- the number of people with wood burning stoves is higher than ever- my parents have an open fire and use a chimney sweep regularly. That is an awful example.

    Besides why make a post that has nothing to do with actually making a guitar openly slagging people who work hard to do a job they love in front of a community of people who will tear your argument to pieces?

    P.S. I know at this point I'm baiting but I really don't care
     
  11. Open_Book

    Open_Book Senior Member

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    If you were to look at most top line builders, building small scale -not a factory- service/repair work has always been the bread & butter of their day to day business. They've always had two jobs and one of them is building their own...

    When has it ever paid well...
     
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  12. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    Guitar center no longer has a "LUTHIER" on staff, they have people that can solder, replace a nut, etc, but fixing broken guitars is becoming a hard thing to find, especially in small towns, under 1 million people. I had an old martin split at the bottom of the spruce top, and finding someone to glue that was impossible for me. I did it myself with wood clamps and a curved jig I made from plywood. It is worth $1000 or so , and I wanted to pay $100 or whatever, but there was nobody.
     
  13. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    I can see most of them being disposable in the future
     
  14. charisjapan

    charisjapan Silver Supporter

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    Hmmm.

    I can see @steve2 being disposable in the future. ;)

    Honestly, dude, what’s your point? Your gloom-and-doom prophecy of stringed instruments is already happened at one level. Yeah, explosive marketing has sold a gazillion guitars and cheapened the experience, lowering the bar for true enthusiasm. But at another level there will always be “retro” folks playing and listening to vibrating strings. And where there are instruments, there will always be artisans repairing and building them.

    You’re wrong ... and a troll.

    :cheers2:
     
  15. JMT Guitars

    JMT Guitars Senior Member

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    I live and work in a city with a population of 116,000. Luthiers workshop down the street. Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe you did not look too hard. As has been said it they have never been on every street corner and it has never paid well, but try a small time music shop and they can point you to a Luthier/repair guy, if not do it themselves (many music shop owners know their instruments... surprisingly enough)
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  16. Skyjerk

    Skyjerk Meatbomb Silver Supporter

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    Guitar center never had real luthiers on staff, nor Sam Ash, note any of the bigger (or smaller) chain stores. They've always just had techs going back to when I was a kid, and sadly that was before those stores existed :)

    Nothing new here.
     
  17. Skyjerk

    Skyjerk Meatbomb Silver Supporter

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    There is no longer a real job known as troll.

    They do it for free for the sheer pleasure of generating unrest. What could lead to that but an empty life.
     
  18. rockstar232007

    rockstar232007 Senior Member

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    No, I wouldn't. Because I'm more of a "glass, half-full" kind of guy.
     
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  19. jdto

    jdto Pretend Human Premium Member

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  20. steve2

    steve2 Member

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    Guitars, that are as good as any guitar ever made, can be had for less than $500. In a few rare cases, up to $1000 (such as a Gibson L-5, You would need to buy an Epiphone ES-175 for about $800). Any signature guitar has an equivalent guitar without the name. The expensive guitars in the old days, were indeed better guitars, but Gibson and Fender are in absurd financial condition because there is a reality in the guitar business and that reality is that the very best guitar is worth no more than $1000. This excludes guitars made to be ornate. I am talking about old school quality. The concept behind this comical scene is LONG GONE.

    Every guitar maker knows this, and this concept is why they are all in serious trouble. One old concept that is beyond stupid is the notion of a "PRE CBS FENDER" or that a Byrdland is something special, or a 1959 Les Paul, or a 1954 gold top is something unique, when they simply are not except for the fact they are antiques. For actual sound, anything is available for under $1000. Mattel Toys could buy Fender tomorrow and the news ones will always be better simply because they are made on a CNC mill. Advanced techniques, such as how they do the binding on a guitar, makes a new Epiphone ES-339 better than any old Gibson ES-339, period, and if you think otherwise you are a nut case that is delusional about old guitars. The only online person I have ever seen or heard that has a brain about old guitar bullshit is the guy named Scott Grove of GROOVY MUSIC LESSONS and while there are certainly others, there are way more old idiots that keep the unbridled stupidity alive and kicking
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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