The Peak of Historic Popularity

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by jenton70, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. lassie

    lassie Member

    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    It wasn’t my intention to offend anyone here. Just saying.
    I know that there are not to many historic owners in their 20‘s out there but I think that they are out there.
    Finances are tight, obviously, but I have luck that I have a job which isn’t paid too shabby. I have to pay my rent every month, but have I no other big cost factors so I can put some money aside.

    A thing that I noticed:
    Friends that own Gibson USA guitars can’t understand what’s special about a historic or a Custom Shop guitar for that matter. They aren’t simply going for that sound, they want a very mellow, smooth sound out of their guitars and not the clear, woody and sometimes biting low output sound of a historic. I even think lots of people today dislike this bright and clear guitar tones and don’t appreciate them. I think this trend extends even further into the amp world. I‘ve played and owned several Friedman Amps and while I really wanted to like them, all of them just sounded too thick and dark, they had a„ soft“-sounding quality attached to them that I wasn’t able to dial out.
     
  2. Farquad

    Farquad Double Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    3,063
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    I don't think its just LP's that have peaked. It feels more market based. When I go into music stores, the guitar sales are all down.
    For me, I still love the look and feel of LP's and part of me still wants to give them a good home, but a touch of reality has set in with me and that I have some friggen awesome LP's and the odds of finding one that I will love more than my regulars is slim. Sure there might be a love it more right now since its new, but once the honeymoon is over is it still played, or just another one in the collection or resold?
    Maybe I've reached a certain contentment and appreciation for what I already have and dont need to keep indulging. Maybe the rest of the world is feeling the same. Maybe not.
    Could just be everything you all have already said. :)
     
  3. jenton70

    jenton70 Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,880
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    That's a great point. At some point you accept what you have, or decide the hobby became more akin to addiction and move out of it, maybe keeping a guitar or two. I think that happens here a lot. It has with me.
     
    Kris Ford and Sct13 like this.
  4. crosstownblues

    crosstownblues Wraptail Fan Premium Member

    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    402
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    My experience with the Historic R's (currently own four) has been that they have generally been finer instruments than the standard USA production instruments (yes, there have been exceptions). That being said, I have never bought a new reissue and have always purchased "used" guitars. Granted, three of four were in nearly unplayed condition, but were indeed not new. Smart shopping in the used market will lead you to your keepers as well as keep costs under control. While money factored into the decision to buy, the quality of the instrument was the driving factor. I was able to A/B a large number of both new and used reissues (R7s, R8s, R9, and CCs) in the same sitting before choosing the one (R9) that spoke to me. Two others (R5 HotMod and R7 Jr.) were a bit of a roll of the dice (Member Classifieds) in that I couldn't play before buying, were both winners. I was able to play before buying the guitar in my avatar (R4), which came factory routed for humbuckers and sporting a nice Madi board - so obviously it passed the in-hand inspection. The only way I would go new (TH) would be if I found "the one" that made me feel confident enough to deal off enough guitars to acquire it. That would take a lot of convincing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
    Sct13, Slater529 and DanD like this.
  5. Slater529

    Slater529 Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    2,381
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Crosstownblues, you're not the only one who has never bought a new reissue. Like you, I'm a big fan of the Rs, and I've owned a few. But I'm down to one at the present, and as far as I'm concerned, one is enough. I'm kinda like Gibson's worse nightmare. Never have and never will shell out the money for a new Gibson when there are so many perfectly good guitars available on the used market for a lot (and I do mean A LOT) less than the price of a new one.
     
  6. fclum

    fclum Junior Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Interesting point made by MonsterTop. For all the complaints about quality control and misunderstood "upgrades" (tuners, etc.), you've got to realize the predicament that Gibson is in right now. Apparently they are in a ton of debt, facing rising costs for tone woods, new limitations of what woods are still legal and then selecting and sourcing suitable replacements for them for as close to the same price as is reasonable, AND a dwindling customer base. If you really think about it, gibbons only reliable customer base IS the over 40 crowd that grew up knowing the sounds of theses instruments. While I'm not right now in the position to rattle off numbers, through my 30 years experience in the gutter sales industry the number of new customers entering the market to buy electric guitars has dwindled enormously since the '80s and '90s.

    I own several Gibson guitars and love them. Most I bought used but several were purchased as new instruments. The point being: I love the Gibson instruments and even with the "quality control" issues of which we all speak at times, they are still pretty damn good guitars.

    I understand Gibson's attempt to use robotic tuning on there instruments. I thought it was mistake to convert most of the lines to them but I understand. I didn't agree with the decision but with Gibson's dwindling inventory of new people wanting to play guitar and a lack of any true guitar heroes at present, I think that Gibson is right to try to experiment and see if a new idea will help bring in some new customers. (I don't know about the other readers but I turned 65 in September and I ain't getting' any younger if you know what I mean. Gibson does) It may well be that the Les Paul that we cherish doesn't produce the same emotion in the younger players like it did you us and they need to find their own means of expression. If we want that expression to be through the guitar then we would have expect that changes must be made to accommodate the new player; just like they were made to accommodated us as we came up the ladder.

    Every product tries to have a feature that distinguishes them for the masses. I believe that Gibson sees very clearly the need to innovate in attempt to appeal to a younger generation yet also respects the needs of the older player in keeping their Historic and Vintage re-issues around for those customers that need that style of guitar.

    That being said, I ENCOURAGE Gibson in it's attempt to advance the market because without the market there IS NO Gibson.Yes, change is upsetting and there may be bumps in the road and things we won't like but there always were. It doesn't mean the instrument should fester and die just to satisfy a dusty old curmudgeon like me! I think that the story is much more complicated than "NO WONDER THEY'RE DOING BADLY! THEIR QUALITY CONTROL SUCKS!" I think this is a tough time at Gibson right now. A time where they are struggling as they watch the debt go up and try to come up with new ways to attract customers in a shrinking market. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

    My guess is that most players that read and/or post on this Blog love their Gibson guitars. While every new design choice that Gibson makes isn't always right, without an attempt at redesign and innovation there won't be any more "Gibson Brands" to kick around anymore. I think all of us need to grit our teeth through the bad stuff and look for the good and hope that Gibson can work out their issues, both financially and in the design and manufacturing process so they can back on track and continue to produce instruments that we love.
     
    djem, lakeburst, StoneVinyl and 4 others like this.
  7. GermHerm

    GermHerm Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    I agree what you have written regading Gibson brands and the fact that they must change their products. Who are we to critizise a company which is in such a debt. Not funny. However, I would like to comments on two topics:
    a) Does ist make sense to try to become a lifestyle musical electronics company? No. I do understand the strategy, but this was too late and too little compared to the 'big companies' in music industry.

    b) Does quality and quality control matters! Yes! Only excellent products can survive in the market. I have no idea what the Gibson expenses are for bad quality, but I assume it is a large amount of their yearly turnover. Maybe I'm too european but QC is THE topic in a company because mean QC burns money extremely fast.
    Hope Gibson will survive. BTW: Besides others, I'm a proud owner of a '91 Firebird V; a '81 LP Custom (very good), and 3 CCs (excellent). ;)

     
  8. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,083
    Likes Received:
    7,302
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    You haven't noticed It ???? BRW ??? TH ??? Short tenons(OK that went over big and is dead now) ??? The list is long

    Add The PR upgrades to an already iffy factual posted info base about a few guitars ....
    More Fluff ,,, and Pump ....
    The merging of the USA and CS build specs ....
    The New ABR bridge .....
    and as always the obligatory Price increases ....
    My thinking is the Son has a hand in all this .. But I know nothing about what happens At "G". Nor do I really care as I'm done , Next is looking like a Fender ...Needs to have a neck that fits my hand better....
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  9. rockinlespaul

    rockinlespaul Oxblood Addict V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    9,263
    Likes Received:
    8,427
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Not offended... just saying.
     
    lassie likes this.
  10. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    1,845
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Indeed! when I play out it's a historic thru a tweed amp or DR Z which is a JTM45 type amp. Perfection was achieved in 1959. Modern stuff just sounds too...well modern!
     
    landguitar, mudface and lassie like this.
  11. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    209
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Sure, I did notice that. I just thought you meant one big thing. Lots of different changes all across the board, yes. Maybe you‘re correct and it‘s all coming from a new management person.

    I believe the folks at the CS still know what they‘re doing and stand behind it. Wildwood‘s doing a new run with Murphy painted LPs and I guess they‘ll be great.

    I don‘t know about that list though. The PR stuff wasn‘t too bad. For me, the only real missing piece was a nice website explaining the stuff a bit better. In my opinion, you can spin it either way.

    The merging of USA and CS build specs... any examples of that? I don‘t doubt this, just want to learn. I understand that the Modern LP Standard and the Doublecut do not really get the Historic treatment in terms of finish, binding. The Custom-stlye guitars probably also could have come out of the US production. I‘d still prefer the CS to do them. I like a lot of what they did this year. I also think there are many things they should change and hope they’ll have the time and ability to do so...
     
  12. PaulStratJackson

    PaulStratJackson Senior Member

    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    51
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    I find that right now is the best time to enjoy the Historic's. Used prices are more reasonable. I've owned 3 over the past 8 years and they were all simply phenomenal. My latest, and best, is an R0 special run with Live Buckers. It plays and sounds better than any other guitar I've laid my hands on and it cost me under $3k, with all the candy and COA. I get complements on the tone all the time at gigs. (see avatar)
     
  13. alnico59

    alnico59 Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    787
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    It is a great time to buy. However, uncertainty causes cold feet. I guess right now it's playing out like that old stock market saying, never catch a falling knife.
     
    DanD likes this.
  14. bigmacattack-1

    bigmacattack-1 Junior Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Hi, Great thread, I have two 2013/2014 transition bursts, I absolutely love them! The price was to great to pass up the tops were beautiful, not over the top,, but real like, the custom buckers sound great so far but I always loved double cream bobbins and I'm tempted to get the doyle coil's They both play like a dream and sound amazing. blxkmhlljwnfsn2zbdyy.jpg hy6xstqam6dind8g0gh1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  15. goldtop0

    goldtop0 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    598
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    The Historic line started in 93/94 so it's 24 years old now and there's less young people playing and interested in guitar.
    A 5 yr old is now a 29 yr old and they've grown up with technology rather than hands on skills.........there's a rapidly diminishing market for traditional instruments.
    Us baby boomers are the only ones interested.
     
    frankv likes this.
  16. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    542
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    I think you're correct on the waning interest. Really a shame as I feel the Historic line has only gotten better over time.
     
    bigmacattack-1 and FennRx like this.
  17. alnico59

    alnico59 Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    787
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    I think I can compare this to the Les Paul Reissue line as a whole. With that I mean pre-historics, dealer special runs, etc.. It doesn't mean you can go out and buy a Leo, Strings, Guitar Trader, Heritage Series, etc.. on the cheap. It's just a slow time and hopefully will improve somewhat.
     
    Iflygreen likes this.
  18. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,509
    Likes Received:
    28,392
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    I’m glad I’m a shitty player. Cause
    I admittedly have only played a handful of Historics from each year the modern spec list (2013-now), but none of them impressed me to the point that i considered buying one and/or selling one I already owned.

    I will say I think the guitars have gotten better looking in general , but that’s not enough for me.
     
    frankv likes this.
  19. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,640
    Likes Received:
    20,926
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Pappy, don’t forget the ‘59 was not exactly a high end Guitar back then. It was a passing phase, that tanked in 1960, with a lot of unsold stock.

    The real high end Guitars were the Jazz Boxes.

    The only reason the ‘59 is where it is today is because they were used for many iconic music tracks.

    :cheers2:
     
  20. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,509
    Likes Received:
    28,392
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Reminds me of a putz I saw on TGP who was claiming the SG was a failure....Lolz. It’s only been in continuous production since it’s introduction
     
    Kris Ford and mudface like this.

Share This Page