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Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by jenton70, Dec 22, 2017.
I’ll just start a bunch a new threads and flip my old ones.
Ha hahaha Nice 1
I think forum popularity may have peaked only because there is far less to bitch about in terms of specs.
I know myself and at least 5 other members who I speak to outside the forum who went from buying a handful a year to buying 0 new the last 2 years. I have no plans to buy another one unless it's used. I'm done spending the money. Fact of the matter is its not worth it to me anymore. There's no guitars that can out do the shanks and the HM so why try?
I also don't much appreciate the bend over approach from big G.
The Historic popularity seemed to peak right before the 'Like' button disappeared. Coincidence? I think not.
I bought my first Historic LP in 2014. The guys in my circle were done buying/flipping well before that. Probably around 2010-2011. Today they don't even have the killer flame tops they sought for so long and were holding onto. Most have went the vintage route or simply scaled back to one Historic LP, usually a GT. I guess they flamed out.
But now you can go back and like those old threads,......which seems to happen a lot now,.....coincidence? Maybe.
Ditto, same here. I know heaps + myself. All those sales are now gone & probably for good. I’m thinking around 40 Historics per year.
It all adds up IMHO.
I don’t know what bubble you are living in Michael but the music industry as a whole, including, Gibson is down significantly & hurting.
This has been happening for quite some time & I doubt it will ever be reversed.
This isn’t my opinion based on MLPF or going to Concerts, it’s based on industry facts, from people I know in the industry & an industry I was once part of & still involved with to a lesser extent.
Sales have also plummeted on new Gibson here in Australia.
Ma & Pa stores around the Globe have disappeared.
Let’s cut to the chase here Michael, your situation with HOG allows you to change Guitars & either break even or make a profit. Buying & selling is way easier for you in a flooded market with tanked prices.
Don’t take this post as having a shot at you because I’m not but facts are facts.
What might have helped lessen the popularity is the way the guitars were marketed this year. We saw very strange announcements from NAMM in January. I think it was noticeable that they were trying to not mention True Historic or anything and just talk about the "59 reissue" with "attention to detail", or something to that effect. Even the biggest Gibson Custom fans could not get anything out of that. That's stupid.
In past years, many of the popular Youtube guitar people had some nice videos with a short tour of Custom Shop releases, a few words about historic upgrades etc. This probably would have been impossible this year, but I think that might have helped. You can now get a plain (or not so plain in some cases) top 58 reissue with TH parts, hide-glue top (I don't care if that's actually vintage correct) for the price of a Standard Historic in Europe. Ambered Gibson logo and everything. One big dealer in Europe will also receive a '54 LP Standard which sells for even less. Basically the stuff Wildwood has had for some time now. Sure, it's missing some of the actual TH specs, but at the end of the day, that – I think – is a really great guitar which costs just a little more than a new US LP Standard. That's awesome, I think.
For me here in Europe, the range of available Gibson Custom guitars is more attractive than ever. I'm shallow, I didn't like the binding color and silver Gibson Logo on Standard Historics. I've always wanted these TH upgrades. Now that's quite "affordable" compared to 2015/2016. Session in Europe did a collection of their own (including an AFD-esque model with nice flame tops, reflectors etc.) and people indeed seem to be interested in them. All is not lost.
I'd really like to see a nice and clean line-up announcement at the NAMM show. Or at least a few statements on the way they do things now, e.g. that there are limited runs coming over the coming months, maybe a few previews etc.
M2M is missing some nice and new PDF documentation as well, example pictures, base models, etc. The website is still stuck in the 200X era. The Fender Custom Shop definitely has a lot of things going for it …
My mate was the Gibson rep here in Qld up until recently and yeah, sales went from absolutely nuts to basically completely stopping.
What arrangement is that?
A lot of valid points here, guys. I appreciate the feedback. I feel like I get pretty streaky with guitar buying. It usually reaches a crescendo and then I back off for a while. But I bought a historic the other day and feel a bit like a relapsed junkie. I just felt as if the historic scene has really cooled off. So when I bought one it was like buying a VHS player in a way. I'm really happy about it but I don't want my friends to know.
I hope everyone realizes this thread was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek and kind of a conversation starter since this place seemed a bit dead lately.
count me in
Gibson must've seen this coming at some point though. I wonder.
That people buy more than just a few over just a few years is amazing in itself is amazing for a product that's iterative at best.
Saturation could have peaked with the Standard Historics? Many non-flippers might have entered as well who don't need and want another one.
Like most plans of World Domination , It eventually fails ....
It appears to me that's something major has changed at Gibson this year ....
Which gives rise to mandatory Higher prices .. So the Business Model is kept intact ...
2 years top , imo ,and a price bump will happen . Hope more nails have been ordered
What would that change be? Honest question.
Losing Edwin and Rick
Just seems the LP, CS, Historic or not is sort of out of fashion right now. A good barometer, not the only but easily accessible, is GC. I remember up to around early 2013 they were completely loaded with LP's. Basically it was all Gibson everywhere I looked, whenever I went. Now it's clearly Fender that covers their walls. It is possible Gibson was responsible for that, pushing the dealers and not necessarily demand. I think it comes down to price and Historic LP's are definitely not immune to it. Even a new Traditional at $2,600 isn't a walk in the park for most today. If I had to guess I'd say the Tele is now probably the hottest axe, appealing to both young and older players alike.
For me, it was hearing such disparaging stories about Gibson from the 'inside' in the way the company is run, how it treats employees, etc. It killed my motivation for the brand in general. Maybe I'm late to all of this...
I also agree with the music industry comments above. I'm reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TIZFO2W/?tag=mylespaul04-20
It's truly depressing... The current pop music environment has had a tremendous effect on session musicians.
In general, I'll never buy a new guitar - always used. The market is flooded with Historics of all kinds.