The Peak of Historic Popularity

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by jenton70, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

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    Thats what GIbson wants you to think.

    If you truly believe that a “good enough” Les Paul is 1:100,000, the problem isn’t with Gibson.

    I know there are a few true believers, but do you really think you can hear difference between glue? Fretboard rosewood species? Really?
     
  2. Petergrifindor

    Petergrifindor Senior Member

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    When the price reached 5K.
     
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  3. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    I feel Gibson hit their stride with TH. Marketing did a poor job of introducing the line. I can't blame marketing too much because short of putting a TH in someone's hands it's hard to sell the 'feel' difference between the TH and Historic line.

    There's a video with Edwin Wilson just gushing over the TH lines improvements and he speaks to the 'feel' he was trying to impart with TH. I think he hit that mark and then some. :applause:

    I think '17 Standards are a step backwards in the feel area. But then some don't like the TH feel and preferred the older larger Historics frets which they get on the new 'Standards'. This division may be the reason for some of lukewarm attitudes and of course price. :hmm:

    To each their own! :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  4. THDNUT

    THDNUT Senior Member

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  5. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

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    All true statements....no one is wrong here. For me it was the prices, and the cheap way they changed stuff for marketing ploys, then the corner cutting at the plant. ...that whole long tenon-short tenon thing was just to start building them easier and on the same line as the USA's ....Then raise the prices even more.....

    bad business....

    oh yea .....treating the dealers like crap was another nail in the coffin for me....or should I say even worse than before....

    When someone like Dave's Guitar Shop pulls the plug....there is something very wrong....(I dont mean to leave out other dealers with that statement)
     
  6. LenPaul

    LenPaul Premium Member

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    For the price of a brand new guitar now, I think it makes a lot of sense to look at vintage beat up player ES Gibsons
    . Spend a bit more ,something with decent pick ups & as an added bonus, there's no up charge for aging.
    I hear voices in the night, so I'm really not sure about anything I'm hearing anymore.
     
  7. XpensiveWino

    XpensiveWino Senior Member

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    I hold the historic line in very high esteem, but could never afford one (and still really can't). I owned an R8 for a few years that was probably the best guitar I ever owned. I got that guitar on a fluke deal here on the classifieds that yielded a once in a lifetime price. After I got a 2016 Traditional, I cashed in on the R8. Maybe I just found a magical '16 Trad, but the quality was close enough that it wasn't worth not cashing in on the R8. USA quality is catching up, and the price difference is nuts.

    Here's my other gripe, the price is just nuts. I *feel* like I'm their target audience of the future: mid 30's, guitar junkie with 11+ guitars (8 of them USA), regularly pro gigging and sometimes touring musician, I own my home and a few investment properties (blah blah blah), and I can't afford one of these guitars new?!? Used, maybe an R7, but still a no on most R8's, and R9's are still out of my league (forget CC's altogether).

    I get it, maybe I'm not such a high roller as I like to think, but I also am the guy who traded 'down' to a Traditional, and I *really* like nice guitars. The value just wasn't there compared to the 'lessor' model.
     
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  8. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

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    Some of those Trads are killer! I had two ...but made the move to historics...I just cant stand the Nashville bridge....and to me the neck is everything, I need the softer edges.
     
  9. Roshy Boy

    Roshy Boy Senior Member

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    I took advantage of the availability of Historics during the past four years. The "used" prices were within my means, which includes my new CME "floor model" 1963 VOS ES335. My 2016 R9 was also "used" at a clearance price.

    I was able to turn a couple Historics over during this period and stay even on the deals. There were plenty of deals going on, so it was easier to flip and get to the models I now have.

    Ultimately, I'm out of the hunt now. Regardless of the drama at Gibson; I love my Gibsons and am glad things fell into place for me to get them.
     
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  10. mfolet

    mfolet Senior Member

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    It has not peaked yet and demand has not slowed down.The only thing that slowed down is the posting about them.

    I've only posted about a third of what I bought this year.I know plenty of members here that buy them as often as I do and don't even give a hint to that fact.

    I'm seeing more reissue Les Pauls on stages than ever before.

    The younger kids have a great interest in these instruments and much like myself when I was that age cant afford them .......yet. When they are older and have money finally they will be on them like crazy.

    The only buyers market is on "common" guitars and that has never changed.

    I'm a little foggy this morning but you might get what I'm saying.
     
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  11. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

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    I find the company doesn't even make the effort update or change their Website anymore, it's been stagnant for a couple of months now. Enthusiasm is contagious, so is apathy. If they want the public's money they don't appear to want to work for it ...zzzzzzzz .... please take advantage of your Web Platform/Social Media exposure ... for God's sake wake up Gibson, show some signs of life
     
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  12. mfolet

    mfolet Senior Member

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    How about put your phone down go to a music store.Go to a concert.Go to a club.Actually see the instruments first hand and what they can do.Thats all you need.
    In the good ole daze we were lucky to get a catalog once a year. You have plenty more than that and look they still are not happy.
     
  13. ntotoro

    ntotoro Member

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    Especially when the majority of the makeovers and replicas are simply variations of lemondrops. The used market on Historics is killer. There's literally no reason to buy one new anymore. Of the five I own, one is new (my 2014 R9, which I truly fell in-love with at first strum), one was NOS (my Wildwood Oxblood R4) and the rest are used.

    Nick
     
  14. modavis99

    modavis99 Premium Member

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    I think Id buy a braz if it wasn't 10K. I'm tapped out otherwise. Have a 13 R0, a 15 TH0 and an ES-LP with no f Holes (CME floor model). I dont need and can't justify another
     
  15. Dilver

    Dilver Senior Member

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    I entered the Historic Realm in 2017. I was either late to the party...or just in time, depending on how you look at it.

    I think 2017 was a “ghost” year for Historics. Officially, they weren’t even called Historics, and instead called “Custom Shop Reissue Les Paul Standards” (even though the body cavity is stamped R7/R8/R9 etc). Specs were leaked in 2016/early 2017, but never officially acknowledged on Gibson’s web site.

    There were crossover features from the True Historic line e.g hide glue neck join, hide glue fretboard join, long tenon, True Historic plastics and pickup covers.

    There were carryover features from the 2013 spec change, e.g. Custom Buckers, tubeless truss rod, aniline dye bleed, etc. And then there were features that were new for 2017, e.g. aged Gibson headstock logo, better back/neck color, space between fretboard and neck pickup, binding/body “ridge”, as well as one not so welcomed change - one common neck profile across 56, 57, 58, and 59 models. Many (all?) were special runs for dealers ordered in late 2016/early 2017, which resulted in a lot killer tops that were hand picked by the dealers.

    Like my ‘58 “Plaintop”:
    [​IMG]

    And all of this flew under the radar.

    The announcement of the Made to Measure program and the speculation and then confirmation of the discontinuing of Historics further confused everyone and overshadowed the 2017 Historics (I know, technically they’re “Custom Shop Reissue Les Paul Standards”) that were still in the marketplace.

    The 2017’s were Rick Gembar and Ed Wilson’s swan song. I can’t confirm this, but it seemed like a demonstration of their efforts to continually improve the Historic line.

    I hope that the Made to Measure guitars become more accessible - dealer spec’d and ordered guitars that make it out in the open on the used market. Then there will be more traffic here.
     
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  16. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    CS LP's , imo ,have "Better Necks" and the specs they are make to ARE Different then USA models . The feel is evident (to me at least) as soon as you get it in hand . . .


    Price and the Numbers of guitars made now, Sales ??? ..... unless you want an R8/R9 Highbred . little to no difference anymore ..
    The Dumping of average looking Figured Maple ( like that's all there is)onto Very Expensively priced guitars .
    R4-R8/9's are now ~ the same neck ...SAD ,, Great
    Junky looking fret Boards as common
    Vintage sized Frets which about 1/2 of the players Don't like .
    I'll go with a Pre 2011 everyday , and dirt cheap now ,,, thanks to Gibson

    Funny thing is , "Gibson Good enough " ??? I want better then, just good enough for that much $$$
     
  17. fretnot

    fretnot Senior Member

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    Guitar sales are down 1/3 over the last decade. To say "I've bought many guitars recently" and think that encompasses the entire market is foolish. I've been to an absurd number of concerts, from huge stadium acts, to the small club venue. Historics are few and far between. Most musicians can't afford them! Go to a triple billing in Brooklyn this weekend. 10-1 says none of the guitar players are using Historic Les Pauls. It's not a knock on them or their merits. They are freakin' expensive for most folks, and the average 25 year old in a band doesn't give two sh!ts about Gary Moore or pickup cover "dimples".
     
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  18. FKO

    FKO Senior Member

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    Too many changes and too many made in a short period. I’m still looking to buy, however, am a lot pickier now with the abundance of choices.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  19. mfolet

    mfolet Senior Member

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    Hmmm this thread has peaked. lol
     
  20. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    You seem.......ummm......offended :laugh2:
     
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