The patch most people get wrong...

Discussion in 'Amp Modeling' started by TheX, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. TheX

    TheX Voice of Reason

    Messages:
    14,702
    Likes Received:
    20,903
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Has to be Robin Trower stuff. His signal is very wet, but it's still musical and recognizable. Most patches are overly distorted with WAY too much reverb and delay.

    What are your "worst"?
     
    Frogfur likes this.
  2. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    No matter how I try, I cannot get a "proper" Fender Deluxe Reverb with cranked spring reverb sound out of the Helix. If I go dry, or add another type of reverb/echo, it'll sound great. Start trying to go "surfy" and FORGET IT!!!! The POD 2.0 still does the "wet" DR better....

    In fact, last night - after messing with Helix for an hour trying to get a good "wet" DR sound for a new country tune I was doing with my Gretsch Duo Jet - I ended up tracking the parts with the POD Pro 2.3. The tone was there, the country feel was there. The Gretsch twanged and barked "properly". Crazy, huh?
     
    frankv likes this.
  3. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    12,132
    Likes Received:
    15,043
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Maybe give a clip of the Helix. Others might be able to help dial what you want in. I DOUBT it can't do what you want. it just might take a more obtuse approach.
     
    mmd likes this.
  4. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Sure! I'll give it a shot. I know it is an off/on topic on the Helix Forum, too....mostly centered around the suck-factor of the spring reverbs, lol
     
  5. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    12,132
    Likes Received:
    15,043
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    I'm thinking maybe, for this tone, you might have to not use the modelled version of each part of an analog rig for the same tone. Axe, I would, but then it has a killer spring verb. Kemper, don't like it's spring verb set really heavy either.
     
  6. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Yeah, I still have an original 60s tube reverb unit, and when I do SERIOUS tracking, it comes out. It is rickety though, lol. I also have the BOSS FRV-1 pedal which is pretty awesome. All I REALLY need to do is climb back behind the rack and plug it in, you know - problem solved!!! I will readily admit it comes down to laziness....
     
    Rhust likes this.
  7. hbucker

    hbucker Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,606
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Honestly, most if not all of the EVH and "Brown Sound" patches I've heard aren't very accurate, IMO.

    Most of his tone comes from his fingers anyway, so this is understandable.
     
    Rocco Crocco, mmd and Rhust like this.
  8. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    most people screw up the metallica tone, tbh... at least the early-mid years stuff... kill em all through black album... they add too much gain, to much reverb, too much scoop... I've downloaded several patches only to delete them... they sound like they are in a can

    kill em all and RtL are a straight up marshall+gibson (acoustic or JC120 for the cleans) and not nearly as much gain as most patches seem to 'hear', as it is volume. any "reverb" is subtle, like it would come from the room, not as an effect.
    MoP-black album (and probably the LOAD albums) were a mesa Mark IIc rewired to be a pre-amp into a marshall power amp... this is harder, because you can't get it straight from a marshall or mesa amp sim... but you get closer with the mesa, but I still haven't dialed it in 100% it's less mid scooped than the mesa"V" I'm thinking because in reality it was probably a little scooped in the pre-amp, but the marshal EL34s boosted the mids back?? IDK I'll bet when they dialed that tone in, they stood back and said "no one F'n Breathe, or we will lose this"
     
    mmd likes this.
  9. Rocco Crocco

    Rocco Crocco Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,181
    Likes Received:
    7,023
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    My Robin Trower patch is very distorted and wet and swirly, but it sounds sooo good.
     
    Rhust likes this.
  10. Rocco Crocco

    Rocco Crocco Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,181
    Likes Received:
    7,023
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    This is the best one I've heard. The guy can play, too.

     
    ttbit, Pop1655, Rhust and 2 others like this.
  11. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    I will say there was a "ain't talkin bout love" patch, and a "little dreamer" patch I downloaded for the THR10X... both were scary close... it made those songs SO FUN to play (not the solos mind you, I suck)
     
  12. Rocco Crocco

    Rocco Crocco Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,181
    Likes Received:
    7,023
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    I would say people use too much gain for AC/DC.
     
    Splattle101, hbucker and Rhust like this.
  13. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    YES! Almost none should be used. I use something plexi or jtm low sag, tight.
     
  14. James R

    James R Premium Member

    Messages:
    3,644
    Likes Received:
    4,903
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    I haven't found any good Gilmour patches out of the ones I've tried.
    Mind you, I've only checked out a few freebies, maybe there's some decent paid ones out there.
     
  15. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    There are 100s of free ones, and the helix is easy to use.. I would have to be incredibly impressed to pay for patches
     
  16. James R

    James R Premium Member

    Messages:
    3,644
    Likes Received:
    4,903
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    I'm with you.
    That's why I say there might be some good ones, I'd never know, so I can't say with any confidence that they're all bad.
     
    Rhust likes this.
  17. Splattle101

    Splattle101 V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    4,040
    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Yep, that's a constant problem. A good Malcolm sound should crunch a bit when you hit the strings of a big open chord, and should then ring out clean. The sustain comes in large part from the volume. A big part of that sound is a relatively low output pickup, too. Lower output often means better clarity.

    Angus's sound varies a bit more.
     
    Rhust and mmd like this.
  18. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    I have never been into AC/DC or tried to cop that tone, but you are right on. When I got my Vintage Series Gretsch Duo Jet (Gretsch Filtertrons, not TV Jones), I was able to - without much effort - get the tone you are describing....crunching on the initial attack of the chord strike, while the rest rings out clear. I was like, "Cool - Tom Petty tone!" Then a friend of mine who is an AC/DC fan was like, "NOOO!!! That's Malcolm tone!!!" He took the guitar, dialed up a Plexi-style tone and began doing AC/DC for the next hour. It was annoying (as a non-fan) but the sounds and riffs were pretty awesome!!
     
    Splattle101 likes this.
  19. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    I am kind of discovering this is an issue for MOST tones, lol...
     
    Rhust likes this.
  20. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    a lot of users think they hear more gain than they really do... yes metal uses a lot of gain, but they have to maintain control and clarity... a little fizz can help cut through the mix, but too much sounds like crap... sludge/southern metal probably uses more gain than say, thrash.... or they may even opt for a fuzz.

    and from first hand experience, sometimes you are playing so loud you are vibrating the drum heads... sounding like a fizz too... idk how much of that gets onto the record, but it's a factor.
     

Share This Page