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Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by sliding tom, Feb 16, 2009.
I missed that series !!!!
Sorry, what I mean is this barre chord (D):
(if I can draw in text)
| | | | | |
t | | x | x
| | | | r |
| | x | | |
| x | | | |
and the 7th shape
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | r |
| | x | | |
| x | x | |
and the minor (which becomes really important as the 'box')
| | | | | x
| | | x | |
| | | | r |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
I didn't mean to step into your lessons here, but I know a lot of guys don't use this barre form.
No - that's O.K.
Your first two shapes are based on the C form (guess you had a typo in your post because you were referring to the D form). The C 7 wouldn't be played as a bar chord. Your third shape (D min) is based on the basic D chord shape and is therefore different from the other two Ds.
But I agree with you: most players only learn to move the E and A chord shapes as bar chords up the neck and miss out on a lot of possibilities. That doesn't mean that you will play every other shape as a full barre but there are a lot of partial barres or shapes that are derived from these basic chords moved up the neck that are extremely useful. Basically all chord shapes come from the five open chord shapes C, A, G, E and D which brings us back to the CAGED system which in my book is a great tool for learning your fretboard.
Thanks for your question and don't hesitate to ask again if anything should be unclear. I appreciate the feedback.
Sure, C or D, with the barre I always think of it as the D form. I think it's important to get guys thinking of the chord shapes that work off the root on the B string.
Excellent course man, I am enjoying it.
But with the moveable shapes you shouldn't be referring them by any root note on any string but (according to the CAGED system) like for example C form / 2nd position and then naming it D. There's a reason for this: take the C9 for example: if you would have referred to the chord above by its root note on the b string, it's not there anymore in C9), thus you may not be able to refer to the C9 as a variation on the basic C chord shape which can make things more complicated than necessary.
lol, the CAGED system came in long after I learned. I have to admit I've never even looked at it. In my world, the difference between a C chord and a D chord is merely the position on the fretboard.
What I'm referring to is taking that Dm shape, planting the root on the 10th fret A (so Am) and you're in the Albert King box. Or I like to take that full D barre up into the country rock major side of the coin. Thinking in those D shapes I find quite important.
But, we digress, let's get back to the show in progress.
I see what you mean and I will cover positions like these later in the course and you might be surprised!
Looks like I have hijacked my own thread!
I am enjoying this thread, Tom. Looking forward to more. I am glad you are using what I call "functional theory" - yes, a contradiction in terms - because putting the theory in an understandable context gives us a way to put it to use, and will, without a doubt, make us all better players simply by giving us an idea of what we actually are doing. It can be liberating to gain this knowledge. We all need to be able to see the benefits in understanding the building blocks of our musical language so we can make it work for us.
And, thanks for doing the homework to find the great musical examples.
specflec: Thanks also and I think I know what you mean.
I just mean that, having sat through way too many theory classes and been involved in too many discussions among music theorist, that the theory becomes the end all and not the vehicle for understanding the music. Theory exists as a way of explaining music and therefore a great tool when attempting to understand it. It is too bad that, for many, theory tends to be unimportant and I can see why, when it is presented without direct context to actual music.
'The thrill is gone' (Gary moore version or BB King version)
we need a sort of walk through on that tune... may players cite it as
one of the first songs they learned to play with.
Its smooth...and its blue
About "Thrill is Gone": Most books and courses on blues guitar work by teaching licks and tunes but I don't believe that it's the right way to do it, that's why I have avoided covering it so far (except for "Stormy Monday" which I covered to demonstrate the application of certain chords and changes). Learning that way makes you into a player who only strings together licks he / she has memorized or someone who can play two dozen classic blues tunes but wouldn't be able to work his way through a jam or a tune that he's unfamiliar with. I think it's much better to learn the building blocks in terms of song structure/rhythm/ chord voicings/lead playing patterns etc. etc. and work your way up from there because that way it is much easier to learn and understand specific tunes and licks and leads and solo approaches.
I have had "Thrill Is Gone" on my mind as a classic piece when we will cover minor key blues.
Is that O.K. with you all?
I will definitey cover at least a couple of classic tunes and riffs further down the road. Let's see how far we can go.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtm66Z3lebc]YouTube - B.B. King - The Thrill Is Gone: 1993/Live At B.B. King's Blues Club, Blues Summit[/ame]
This is me. Years ago as a teenager my older brother taught me rythym tracks so he could practice leads . I learned by rote: "do this - and repeat."
I gleaned a bit of what was going on, but I'm glad you are taking this approach. I want to learn, not just train my hands.
Good point sliding tom...
I am gonna stick with the program as it unfolds
So far we have explored the pentatonic scale lead playing pattern based on the G chord shape.
Now lets move to another pattern. This one is based on the E chord shape and in direct relation to the corresponding chord position yields the major pentatonic scale - but when you view it as the relative minor it is also the minor pentatonic scale for the key three half steps lower (recap: relative minor = three halfsteps below major).
Here again is our minor pentatonic lead pattern based on the G chord shape - key of A, root notes in yellow:
Now here is the lead pattern based on the E chord shape - in the 8th position. This would be, as explained above, the major pentatonic lead pattern in the key of C corresponding with the E chord shape barred at the 8th position yielding a C chord..
Pentatonic lead pattern E chord shape, 8th position, key of C major or A minor:
The red dots are the notes most often used for A minor pentatonic. Theres a ton of leads being played in this area of the fretboard in classic blues recordings.
Now it gets interesting: lets combine the G shape pattern and the E shape pattern - its easy because they overlap and one (E pattern) directly connects to the one before (G pattern).
The black dots highlighted in red are the frets where the two patterns overlap. The positions with the smaller red dots on strings E, A and D will be used rarely because you can get a more fluid lead going by changing your playing position from the G pattern to the E pattern back and forth transitioning on the G string.
As always: this in the Key of A just for convenience but can be moved to any position on the fretboard.
(since requested: move it to the key of B - two frets higher and you have all the notes you need to play Thrill Is Gone)
Ughh. Im behind. Life is busy. Think Ill go back to the beginning
OK!!! Im still behind BUT the dog didnt eat my homework
Fact is, I work a lot. I work in Japan as an engineer. Lets just say I'm very familiar with overtime. So when I'd come back to this thread, it was sometimes a chore to figure out where I'd left off. (And I was getting distracted by other threads: "Should I buy a Robot Gibiphone or a Holy Tribal Epison Paul??") Sooooo heres what Ive done.
I went back through this thread and focused on Sliding Toms great information, YouTube vids, and links. I cut out the "Thank Yous", and questions. (ST did set up a separate thread for questions...!) What I'm left with is a text document of pure Blues Info.
If its cool with you Sliding Tom, Ill post up the Summary, and everyone can get caught up offline. If there are any updates... well, I'm guessing were all subscribed, so well know to check back.