The MLP Blues Guitar Course

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by sliding tom, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    No problem with liking the solo - no need to feel guilty about that...:naughty:

    As for your question:

    Example: the bass and / or drums could be playing straight fours - let's say the bass plays a straight four to the bar walking bass line, the drummer hits the kick on beats 1 and / or 3 and the snare on beats 2 and 4 and you could be shuffling away or play triplets right on that beat with no problem.

    But as soon as a rhythm instrument plays straight eighths (drummer on the hi-hat for example) and somebody else triplet eighths, those eighths will fight each other because they will be offset with each other in way that will mess with the basic rhythmic feel of a tune.
     
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  2. LiveSimply

    LiveSimply Senior Member

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    I see what you did there, Slide.... I see what you did there

    :laugh2:

    Thanks for the reply... that makes perfect sense.
     
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  3. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    I don't know why, but I have never liked that version. It's boring to me. It's almost link laziness on Clapton's part, but what do I know? I just know it bores me.

     
  4. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    The results will vary on a case by case basis, of course, but what Tom is describing is how "true" rock & roll rhythm is often described - that straight v shuffled feel.

    The r&r standard is the other way around, though.

    Imagine a stand up bass playing that four to the bar walking bass line, the drums playing a back beat with a swung or shuffled feel, and then put a piano over the top playing straight 8ths. Voila - instant Little Richard.

    That 'in the cracks' feel (done right) is 'rock & roll': the straight 8ths are the 'rock', the swing is the 'roll'. Sometimes you'll hear people playing 'in the cracks' on one instrument, rather than it always being so rigidly split between the rhythm & lead sections.

    Genre boundaries are largely undefinable, and mostly meaningless, or at least irrelevant, but (having said that) about the only one that I have any time for is the notion that "rock & roll" becomes "rock" at the exact moment that the rhythm section stops swinging, and follows the straight 8ths feel.

    Sorry Tom, that was a bit of a digression (and I know that you know all this anyway)...

    :)
     
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  5. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Alright by me, huw! :)
     
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  6. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    I was thinking about that all just the other day, Tom - I was listening to The Who's first album ( one of my favourites ) and I'm always struck by how often Keith Moon sneaks a swung triplet feel into the drum parts, even when Townshend is pounding away in a straight 8 feel.

    :)
     
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  7. markbastable

    markbastable Strange kind of blues-coloured moon Premium Member

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    Me too. It's an extension of the fish and fishing-rod thing for me - except I not only want the fishing-rod, I also want to know why the fishing-rod is made that way.

    And it's not 'overcomplicating', is it? Whatever it is that makes this scale work with that sequence is exactly as complicated as it has to be to explain that natural phenomenon - it's not made up, it's just how music works. And if I know that, I can start extrapolating and becoming creative with it.

    More importantly, from the point of view of assimilating this stuff, I want to know 'why' not just because I'm curious, but because I learn quicker when I have the 'why' as well as the 'how'.

    I avoided learning any music theory at all for about thirty years, because I sort of believed that if I was any good, I'd do it all by feel and by ear, and that knowing the rules would stifle my creativity.

    When I finally succumbed and starting learning theory, I found that as a player, I improved exponentially and became much more creative, because having all that stff in my head enabled me to stop worrying about where my fingers were going and allowed me to concentrate on where my imagination was going.
     
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  8. LiveSimply

    LiveSimply Senior Member

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    Slide -

    Interesting article on tools of the trade for slide guitar that just came out on Premier Guitar below. You've likely tried them all, but maybe some are new to you. Just an FYI. Think you mentioned, you just go straight for the bottle neck.

    Tools for the Task: Slides | Premier Guitar
     
  9. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    [​IMG]


    Well, the one in the middle....

    wouldn't that belong in the After Hours section?...:hmm:


    :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:


    Anyway - thanks - but that's just a tiny fraction of options available...:naughty:
     
  10. LiveSimply

    LiveSimply Senior Member

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    Yeah, kind of a weird one to lead off with I thought.

    You might need to do some explaining to do to the wife if that falls out of your gear bag.

    The article had three pages of options, in case you didn't notice, Slide. Some of those looked interesting... the brass rock slide was intriguing.
     
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  11. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    The Rock Slide is a good choice - I have several of them - although I aged them myself...:naughty:
     
  12. LiveSimply

    LiveSimply Senior Member

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    Slide, I have a question about a Freddie King shuffle. Specifically, the song "I'm Tore Down", which a shuffle in D.

    The way I'm hearing the shuffle being played is as follows:

    I chord (D):


    ---------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------
    --7 -7 - 9 -7 - 10 -7 -9 -7 ----------
    --5 -5 - 5 -5 - 5 - 5 -5 -5 ----------
    ----------------------------------------

    IV chord (G)

    --------------------------------
    --------------------------------
    --7 -7 -9 -7 -10 -7 -9 -7 ----
    --5 -5 -5 -5 - 5 -5 -5 -5 ----
    ---------------------------------
    ---------------------------------

    My question is: Is this REALLY the positions where they are playing this shuffle? I am finding stretching to that 10th fret position while holding the D note on the 5th fret (for the I chord) bloody impossible. I can reach, but I have to disengage the fretted finger on the 7th fret to do it, which seems so inefficient, I'm now wondering if it's wrong. So is this just being played by some dude with ginormous hands, or is there some magical open D tuning that is being employed that facilitates this shuffle? (Edit: experimenting with finger positioning, I'm finding that fretting the 7th fret with my middle finger instead of the ring facilitates the stretch to the 10th while keeping the 7th engaged... maybe that's the trick to folks with little hands like me to get this done...:laugh2:.... still, there has to be something I'm missing... maybe the I chord is played with the open D in the open position, but the IV chord would pose the same problem for me?)

    Below is the tune:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjtxZuvZ7oE

    Thanks, Tom.
     
  13. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    Haven't time to check the track at the minute, but an obvious thing to try would seem to be to try the D at the 10th fret, on the E & A strings, and the G at the 10th on the A & D.

    Higher up the neck = smaller stretch for the little finger.

    Of course, there's a tonal trade off, and you will probably be able to hear pretty quickly which position is the correct one, but you can practice the finger moves at the 10th, then when you're fingers are more used to the pattern, head back down to the 5th.

    Just a thought...

    :)
     
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  14. LiveSimply

    LiveSimply Senior Member

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    Thanks, Huw. I had thought of that and tried it, but it sounds a bit too bright up there.

    The reason for my query also stemmed from the fact that though the fingerings I laid out above sound right on that Federal recording, it actually doesn't sound much like what I am hearing in a recording I have at home ("Getting Ready", 1971), which I was initially trying to transcribe. The Open D chord sounds more like what they are using for the I and the IV and V chord sounds I just can't seem to match exactly (I couldn't find that recording on YouTube, though). That's why I was wondering if in there was also some sort of open D tuning that made this sort of a shuffle more manageable- to see if I could sus out the moves on my mp3 - or at least to be able to play with this Federal recording a bit more easily.

    It may be that my fingerings are correct and it is just a matter of putting in the time to make it happen.....
     
  15. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    LS - sorry for the late reply - haven't been checking in the lessons section for a while.

    Actually I don't hear any double stops on the low strings there.

    It's one of many variations of a classic Chicago blues accompaniment played on the lower strings. One of the best known examples is "Checking Up On My Baby" with which it is mostly associated.

    Here's a version by Taj Mahal where you can hear that line well:


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZQG7x9F58U"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZQG7x9F58U[/ame]




    Freddie King's Getting Ready version is a bit different from the Federal recording:


    root - octave - 7/6/5 triplet and 4/b5/5 triplet.

    I hope you can follow me here - if not I'll do a tab for you.
     
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  16. LiveSimply

    LiveSimply Senior Member

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    Thanks so much, Tom.

    That was really, really helpful, and you are very kind to take a look at that Getting Ready version of the song, as that is truly the one I'm trying to work off of.

    I am really embarrassed by how off I was on that rhythm, Tom. I wasn't even catching those triplets to be completely honest with you. I hear them clearly now that you have pointed it out. Curious, do you think that first triplet might be b7/6/5, instead of 7/6/5? When I play against the song that b7 seems to ring a bit truer to my ears... but clearly my ears are not to be trusted in any significant way

    As for the Federal recording not using the root as a "pedal" tone would certainly make that stretch A LOT easier. That's pretty bad I was consistently "hearing" a note that isn't even being played :eek:. That's how I learned the shuffle early on and now I've just conditioned myself to assume the base always rings out. Bad assumption. Need to work on my ear.
     
  17. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Glad I could help you there, LS! :thumb:

    Yes - it's not easy to single out thoset lines among what's going on there without a lot of experience.

    You are spot on right: it's b7 which I meant. It's just that in blues tonality (minor or mixolydian) I tend to refer to the b7 just as the 7 - sorry about that...:D
     
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  18. jamdogg

    jamdogg Senior Member

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    I am very late to this blues party - nevertheless, many thanks for sharing.
     
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  19. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Cheers jamdogg - well, the party is always open! :thumb:
     
  20. offthedome

    offthedome Junior Member

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    I recently just ventured south of the Gibson Les Paul main thread and this is where I landed. Fantastic, Sliding Tom! I'm working my way down the first page of your thread right now, and I plan to continue "through the years."

    Thanks again!
     
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