The MLP Blues Guitar Course

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by sliding tom, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    No it doesn't. edit - well, depends on what you mean by "series", but it has nothing to do with the next chord in the 'progression'

    Yes it is, or at least it stands for a chord.

    Say that you have a tune that is in the key of A.

    Your chord I is A. That's the 'home' chord, the place of resolution for the song. We do indeed count up the scale to derive what chords get which numerical designation, so sticking to IV & V..

    A = I
    B = ii
    C# = iii
    D = IV
    E = V
    F# = vi
    G# = viidim

    Yes? So chord IV is D, & chord V is E.

    These are just names and have no relation whatsoever to the order in which we will play them in the song.

    Our song might have an intro such as this one:

    E /// D /// A /// A / E /

    ...before going on to a standard 12-bar verse pattern.

    We'd write that intro down as:

    V /// IV /// I /// I / V /

    That is the song's chord progression, written either as actual chord names, or roman numerals.

    We might say that the song has a 'simple I, IV, V progression', because those three chords are all that the song contains, but that's just a description : that doesn't tell us the order to play the chords in, or for how long.

    Well, we use the roman numerals so that we can change the key of the song, so yes - you're right about that part. If we wanted to play that intro I wrote out in the key of E, we'd work out that I, IV, & V in E are E, A & B, and then plug them into the progression to get...

    B /// A /// E /// E/B/

    But 'a I, IV, V progression' can be anything that just uses those three chords. All of the following could be described as a 'I, IV, V':

    I /// I /// IV /// V ///
    I /// IV /// I /// V ///

    or

    I /// IV /// I /// V ///

    or

    I /// IV /// I /// I ///
    IV /// IV /// I /// I ///
    V /// IV /// I /// IV/V/

    or

    V /// IV /// I /// I ///

    etc

    Any clearer? :)
     
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  2. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Just a semantics problem. All is good. I, IV, V are "symbols" that stand for chords, of which we plug in. So it was just symantics. Thanks for the explanation, though.

     
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  3. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    ST, in the words of Elvis Presley...............thank, thank you very much. :thumb: :applause:

    :cheers:
     
  4. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Cheers, Rudi! :)
     
  5. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Another question.I started practicing Dom 7s and I see that they are located on the fretboard differently than the major or minor chords. The major chords can be barred down the neck at specific intervals that form a pattern. So you know exactly where the put the barre, except in the case of C to D and D to C because they share a note, and you just have to know that. So you can start with and open C, then where the note furthest up the fretboard is on the C chord is where the barre goes for the next form, which is A, and so forth.

    So I'm assuming there is a similar pattern going down the fret board with C7, A7, G7 etc. It looks like you have to know the root note in order to know where to barre, or just memorize the positions. So, what is the pattern I'm not seeing?

    Last, actually another question, I was trying some DOM 9, 11s, and 13s too, and some of them are REALLY tough. I mean they are tough x100 above the major and minor chords. Is this correct? Or is it just me? (If so,now I know why a blues player told me to remember, although it would not make sense for a while, that "when you're playing the blues,or rock, or a fusion of the two, and with other music too, you almost never use a full chord all of the time,choosing to use 2-3 notes of it."
     
  6. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    The dom7 chords are located just the same as the major triads - they too follow each other via the CAGED system. They just have a slightzly different fingering. When it comes to blues, the most important shapes are the A, C, D and E shapes. The G shape is rarely being used further up the neck.


    A7 - A shape:

    [​IMG]


    A7 - E shape:

    [​IMG]

    A7 - D shape:

    [​IMG]


    C7 - C shape (moved to the 9th position will render A7 - don't play the high e string and play it non-barree):

    [​IMG]


    Forget about the 11 - rather 9s and 13s.

    Both derived from the basic C shape:

    A9:

    [​IMG]


    A 13:

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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  8. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Okay,thanks for the reply. So, using the CAGED system, how come it doesn't go:

    A7, G7, E7 and so on?
    e.g.:
    open A7 (A7 Form)
    A7 barre G7 form

    and so on?

    Where would the A7 chord G7 form be?

     
  9. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Oh, it does but because as soon as you add additional chord tones to the basic triads you'll get more options for fingerings and chord shapes overlap more than the basic triads in the CAGED system.

    Give me some time and I'll put together a small compendium of blues approved dom7 chord shapes.
     
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  10. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Yeah that was confusing me. Also the addition of shapes that I can't even find as 1st position chords. Here is an example:

    1st position: A7 open 2nd fret, E + C#/Db
    2nd position: A7 chord, G7 form 2nd fret barre (so far so good)
    3rd position: A7 chord, E7 form 5th fret barre (so far exactly like CAGED with majors, so the next form should be A7 chord, D7 form 7th fret)
    4th position: A7 chord, who knows what form, 6th fret.

    This form is not a barre and it is not a ABCDEFG 7 form of any sort.


    It's like a chord form without it's own chord sound.

    6th fret: C#/Db
    7th fret: A
    8th fret: G
    9th fret: C#/Db

    This form shows up for all 7s, even F7. The problem is that it doesn't show up as any chord in the 1st position. It's like it's a brand new chord form that only appears after the first position.

    So this is going to get complicated fast, I can see.



     
  11. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    It's like a chord form without it's own chord sound.
     
  12. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    These will be - without exception - a combination of notes from two of the more usual shapes.

    Yes - Tom gave you this one a couple of posts back:

    [​IMG]

    It took me a second there, because you didn't say which notes were on which strings, but I got it after a second. This is a combination of notes from an 'E7 shape' A7 and a 'D7 shape' A7:

    e 5 - 9 - 9
    B 5 - 8 - 8
    G 6 - 9 - 6
    D 5 - 7 - 7
    A 7 - x - x
    E 5 - x - x

    There is nothing wrong with that resultant shape - although generally, as a rule of thumb, we tend not to double the third in a shape, and this one has two C#s (not Db ;) ).

    With the usual CAGED shapes there will be only one or two notes that stay the same, and most change, to make the next shape up the neck.

    In this particular case most have stayed the same, and only one has changed : your shape is basically a 'D7 shape' A7 with one note from the 'E7 shape' (the C# at the 6th fret).

    That is the only reason why it doesn't have it's own 'shape name'.


    Only if you let it!

    :)

    edit...

    Well it can do, if you want it to:

    e 4
    B 3
    G 1
    D 2
    A (2)
    E (0)

    That's an E7 using your shape at the 1st position.

    :)
     
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  13. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    :thumb:

    In the meantime, my favourite chord to use as a I in a jazzy blues:

    e 5
    B 7
    G 6
    D 5
    A x
    E 5 (thumb)

    A13, based on the 'E shape', with a 4 string barre, and a thumb-wrap for the low root note.

    :)
     
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  14. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    I tend to drop the note on the high e and use four fingers - great sounding chord anyway...:thumb:
     
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  15. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Oh God you guys are hurting me!

    So some questions and comments, as usual:
    HUW - "These will be - without exception - a combination of notes from two of the more usual shapes. . .This is a combination of notes from an 'E7 shape' A7 and a 'D7 shape' A7. . ."

    Thank you, and so unless you are a genius of pattern recognition, just gotta memorize them when they show up, and their locations?

    For the chord without a form question, I said, "The problem is that it doesn't show up as any chord in the 1st position. It's like it's a brand new chord form that only appears after the first position. "

    You replied:
    "Well it can do, if you want it to:

    e 4
    B 3
    G 1
    D 2
    A (2)
    E (0)

    That's an E7 using your shape at the 1st position."

    Please explain or give a image of it, please.
     
  16. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    I have a little chord app on my Windows phone and I'm not seeing the "5" chord, but I see a "dim5." It seems to have the rest, 6s, 13, 11s, etc. Please explain. Also, where are you playing them, all over, where you feel like it, or at specific locations for each?

     
  17. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Tom,

    Are you talking about the E5 chord? Image please on how you both play it :) or do you mean like it shows on this website--then no image needed:
    http://www.chorder.com/guitar-chords/E/5/5

    If so looks like it can be played with two notes and the rest muted also.

     
  18. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    The "5" chord is the so-called "power chord" - essentially a fatter sounding root note since the "5" doesn't give it any "harmonic quality". The dim5 is a different sound and chord and I don't think you will need it right now...:naughty:
     
  19. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    I see so since a "power chord" isn't really a chord, it doesn't show up in my chord app, right? Thanks!

     
  20. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    I'll apologise in advance if I'm wrong here, but I think you're misunderstanding what I posted. I didn't say anything about an E5 chord. When I said this...

    That is strings/fret locations. ie it means 'high e string, 5th fret; b string, 7th fret; g string, 6th fret; d string, 5th fret; a string muted (that's the x); low estring, 5th fret (played with thumb). That's a single chord shape.

    It doesn't mean 'play an E5, then a B7, then a G6, etc :)

    So here:

    That is an image of the chord: high e string, 4th fret; b string, 3rd fret; g string, 1st fret; d string 2nd fret... etc...

    Like I said, sorry if that isn't how you were reading my post, but I can't see where the E5 suddenly entered the discussion otherwise.

    :)
     
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