The MLP Blues Guitar Course

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by sliding tom, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    I do have a question about creating progressions. USing a I-IV-V, does the same thing apply to voicing, so if you had C,F,G would the same thing apply to something like C, F, G7 or maybe something like C7, F, G, or Cm,F,G?
     
  2. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    That has nothing to do with voicing. Voicing is the order of the notes in a given chord. They don't have to be stacked up in the order of 1- 3 - 5 - 7 etc. Any other order of the notes will not change the chord itself to a different one but you'll get a different voicing with a different sound.

    As for (diatonic) chord progressions:

    Here's the succession of diatonic chords in a major key - that means that you can build a chord from any step of the scale using notes from that scale using the chord building formula of 1-3-5-7:

    Imaj(7) - IImin(7) - IIImin(7) - IVmaj(7) - Vdom7 -VImin(7) - VIImin(7/b5)

    In a major key you would have Imaj, IV maj and Vdom as your I - IV - V progression.

    Now apply this to a minor progression - two examples:

    Let's make the VImin our new tonic and key - that would be natural minor.

    Count to the fourth and fifth step respectively from VI and the IImin is your subdominant and and the IIImin your dominant.

    Now let's do that for the IImin chord - now you'd be in dorian mode:

    IImin - tonic; V maj (or dominant if you add the 7) - subdominant; VImin - dominant.

    One thing you'll encounter often in minor progressions is that the V chord will not be a diatonic minor but a dominant 7 because a minor chord isn't strong enough in its sound to lead you back to the I chord.

    The blues tonality is a bit of a strange biest in that all the chords in a I - IV - V progressions are dom7 chords.
     
  3. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Pretty much lost me here. I'll keep trying to understand it. "The blues tonality is a bit of a strange biest in that all the chords in a I - IV - V progressions are dom7 chords. "

    Does that mean you could not mix a dominant 9 with a blues progression of some sort and a dominant 7?

     
  4. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Actually, this is what I mean, which may be less confusing, and I posted it before:

    I just wanted to post something I saw early on using the Circle of Fifths to find chord progressions. I think this is also a way to do it.

    Number the chords:
    1A 2B 3C 4D 5E 6F 7G

    Key of C would be:
    3C 4D 5E 6F 7G 1A 2B

    So you start with the key, and just count the alphabet off from the key or tonic.

    C = I (count 1,2,3,4 to get. . .)
    F = IV (count 1,2,3,4,5 to get . . .)
    G = V

    So a key of "C" I, IV, V progression is sure enough C, F, G.

    You always count the Key or Tonic itself in order to get the progression, that is, the IV and V chord.

    So if this is correct, and we fill in the major chords with dominants, like the 7 & 9, would the formula be the same? There, much more clear. lol
     
  5. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Exactly! Doesn't matter if it's a 7, 9 or 13 - they are all dominant chords as long as they are written like this: A7 or A9 or A13 in the case of A. The 9 and the 13 both contain the b7.
     
  6. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Can you mix chord types, such as C, F, G7? If so, then how does the formula work to find progressions?

    For instance, using the major progression C, F, G, what if you didn't want all major chords in the progression, but you wanted to start with a major chord, like C. What would the formula be to find the next chord in the progression--given you don't want an all major progression?

     
  7. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    You can do whatever you want - there are no actual rules.

    There is no formula to "find" progressions - you can string together any chords that you think sound good.

    However, there are formulae for working out which chords are derived from a particular scale (but that's been covered). The way they fit together into a progression is up to the composer, although there are 'standard' progressions, like the 12-bar blues for eg.

    Trying to answer this part, & I can see a couple of different ways to interpret your question:

    a) Q - How doe you know when you can use a dom7 instead of a vanilla major chord? A - whenever you think it sounds good.

    b) Q - How do you know which chords is a key are not major? A - either work it out by stacking thirds from each new root note in turn (ie after C major, the next note is D; treat that as a root and stacking thirds gives Dm, etc) or look it up... http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/guitar-lessons/97488-reference-chords-all-modes-major-scale.html

    As a matter of terminology, a chord progression is something that is composed by the song writer, and doesn't have to follow any rules at all. Asking how to work out what to the next chord should be in a progression is a little like asking what colour shirt you should wear : it's up to you!

    :)
     
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  8. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    So if you started and stayed with all Dominants 7s,9s, 11s, and I would assume maybe even 13s, they will all sound good together in a I, IV, V, similar to stay with all majors chords in the same progression?

    And, if you want to mix majors and minors and Doms, etc., then there is really no formula, just try and see?

     
  9. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    Yes - although for the sake of interest you may find that mixing them up sounds better : eg I13 IV9 V7 or something like that.

    You've got it. :thumb:
     
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  10. Codeseven

    Codeseven Senior Member

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    Been following the last few pages and DW's progress. Geez, I want to start this whole course but I think it's gonna be way over my head. I've only been playing guitar for about 3 months but I'd like to get a solid Blues foundation since I feel it's the root of so much music.

    Any newer players out there tackle the MLP Blues Guitar Course?
     
  11. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    It's pretty overwhelming when you start it, but just take a little a t a time and don't let the theory interfere with your plucking. I started out learning the Minor Pentatonic/blues (almost the same), and now I'm learning about chords and how they function with scales and over the fretboard.

    Just ask questions. You will get frustrated, but that's normal. I finally feel as if I am making some sense out of this tool called a "guitar" and why it sounds like it does if you operate it correctly (which is really tough, so don't think it isn't)--lol. The people who think guitar is "easy" fall into two types:

    (1) Those who use it primarily to sing with because singing is their main concern, and only use a few chords where they need them for that backup process.
    (2) Those who don't know how to play guitar, except to memorize a few chords so they can play substandard copies of cover songs using chords, like Hotel California by the Eagles.

    Nothing wrong with those types, but actually "playing" guitar, like my hero Micheal Bloomfield, is not easy.
    [​IMG][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdMf-86Evro[/ame]
     
  12. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Is there a list of 'traditional' progressions somewhere I can have for reference? Just one other from the I IV, V and a couple of jazz progressions will do for now.

     
  13. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Jazz progressions? I do seem to remember that you've been playing guitar for about 6 - 7 months? Way too early for jazz progressions....:shock:
     
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  14. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    I know I keep saying this to you, but 'I, IV, V' isn't a progression, it's a list of the chords in a progression. You can make many different progressions just using those three chords.

    Because this is a Blues course, I don't want to take it away from Tom's intended direction by filling it up with 'non-blues' progressions, but here are a few variations on the basic blues progression :

    Style Guide: Essential Blues Progressions | 2013-09-13 | Premier Guitar

    However, for the teaching purposes of this thread, I'd say that the 12-bar progression is a perfect setting in which to be learning the stylistic vocabulary that Tom is laying out here.

    :)
     
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  15. sliding tom

    sliding tom Senior Member

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    Great source, huw! :thumb:

    Bookmarked for further reference.:)
     
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  16. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    LOL. Thanks for the compliment, but I refer to my guitar experience as not yet "playing" but "practicing." When people ask, "How long have you been playing?" I respond, "Well, I can't play, but I have been practicing for 7 months."

     
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  17. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    That's just what I wanted, thanks.
    You know what? Last night I practiced the major chords up and down the neck, and all of the strings are almost ringing, all up and down. What?! YAY! It's almost like my barre finger is finding it's place or something. It's awesome!


     
  18. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    OK that doesn't make sense to me, since I, IV, V simply pertains to which chord you start with and how many chords you count off to get the next chord in the series. I mean I or IV isn't a chord, is it? I thought the progression was "called" I, IV, V and then you plug in the chords yuo want by counting off, or using the circle of fifths. Please explain. I feel like I have totally missed something now. :(

     
  19. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Another question, after listening to the resource huw posted. I know this is going to sound stupid, but here goes:

    So let's say you had the CFG progression. If you play the same chords up or down that changes the chords "octive," right? SO you could play FCG at the nut open,then move down to the next CFG and play them again--and although it doesn't change an entire octive, it changes "the octive"?
     
  20. Codeseven

    Codeseven Senior Member

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    Exactly the way I feel when asked that question. Then it's often followed by, 'oh cool, play something!' Nope.
     

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