The highest measured DC of an orginal PAF? How high could it go?

Discussion in 'Pickups' started by Squints17, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member

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  2. Squints17

    Squints17 Member

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  3. Squints17

    Squints17 Member

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    So I read that thread, great info. I also read an article about inductance on the duncan site.
    I guess I am your average noob pickup buyer. I never looked that much into all the other measurements and components and didn't think much beyond the marketing specs that are typically provided (wire gauge, magnet, and DCR).

    There is really a lot more too it than that. I wish there was a standard of measure that could shine a better light as to the pickup characteristics.

    Winding a pickup seems like its half art half science: Alchemy.
     
  4. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Member

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    Keep in mind that alchemy was rooted in a misunderstanding of basic physics and chemistry.
     
  5. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    ^That should be your new username.
     
  6. LtKojak

    LtKojak Senior Member

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    I really think he should change his handle to a more suitable name.

    I have a proposal, which is actually a very common name: "Dick".

    Who's with me on this one? ;)
     
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  7. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Member

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    Just a reminder: I'm the only one who answered the question that OP actually asked, and none of the information I provided has been shown to be incorrect.
     
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  8. akuster777

    akuster777 Member

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    I for one have learned an enormous amount from both LtKojak and Antigua, and I'm grateful that both of you have shared your knowledge on these forums.

    Andrew
     
  9. zoork_1

    zoork_1 Senior Member

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    No matter who's right or wrong, this is rude...
     
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  10. LtKojak

    LtKojak Senior Member

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    Why?

    There must be millions of persons in the world named Dick. Chester Gould created in 1930s a comic strip of a tough and intelligent police detective by the name of Dick Tracy. The Detroit Mirror publisehd the strip until 1977. Were they rude with people for over forty years?

    A penny for your thoughts.... ;)
     
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  11. LtKojak

    LtKojak Senior Member

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    On the contrary, you've been called on that, all you do is just deny it.
     
  12. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Member

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    OK, link to the post which proves that the information I provided was incorrect.
     
  13. LtKojak

    LtKojak Senior Member

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    So, you think that was a single post?

    Man, I'd rather talk to a flatearther... ;)
     
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  14. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member

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    But which parts that you learned have been correct information? Because that's really the point of frustration, here.

    Pepe / LtKojak has a great deal of real-world personal and direct experience from years of working in the industry, which is to be respected. His knowledge is first-hand and founded in a great deal of experience, not just theories from reading other's work and opinions on the internet, or a taking apart a few Epiphone pickups.

    The very problem I take with the other guy is that he spouts his opinions as facts, under the premise of teaching, but what's really happening is he's misinforming the uninformed. Perhaps even with good intention, I'll acknowledge, but still ultimately doing a disservice and has been repeatedly asked to stop and qualify his statements as theories or opinions instead of claiming them to be facts and absolutes.

    He's sitting here claiming a 9k cap for the output of a PAF. Well, that's not true in at least 3 ways. DCR does not equal output. Vintage PAFs have exceeded that DCR figure. Modern PAF-style pickups have exceeded that DCR figure and a number of members here own pickups I've personally built beyond that figure.

    He says nobody has proven him wrong? Lordy. Reality has proven him wrong. There's really nothing anyone can say to make a fellow like that admit he's in error. I could post photos of pickups that disprove that DCR limit and he'd find some way to twist things around to him still being right in some parallel universe.
     
  15. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Member

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    I never said that. You're the only person who has used the word "output" in this entire thread.

    It's clear that you only think the information is wrong because you're simultaneously making incorrect assumptions about both OP's question, and my response.
     
  16. LtKojak

    LtKojak Senior Member

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    The "real story" as you call it, is that you can't use DC readings to measure any of that. You should use number of turns, as DC readings will vary with temperature and actual thickness of the wire, which varies in the different parts of the actual spool the wire is delivered.

    Hence, giving you any number is, as a matter of fact, almost completely useless and incredibly misleading for the uninformed. Like it or not, that's the "real story".
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  17. LtKojak

    LtKojak Senior Member

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    James, truer words have never been spoken.

    "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
    - Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, 1150 A.C.
     
  18. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Member

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    DC resistance is useful as a way to guesstimate a wind count. Variance in temperature does increase or decrease the DC resistance somewhat, but it's consistent enough that if you have two PAF type humbuckers that measured 7.5k ohms by different people in different places at different times, those two pickups might not have exactly the same wind count, but if you're fairly sure both are wound with 42 AWG, it's very safe to say that their have a closer wind count than either has to a PAF type measuring 8.5k, for example. Since pickup manufacturers don't provide either wind counts or inductance measurements in their specifications, we're forced to do the best we can with the limited information they choose to reveal.
     
  19. copperheadroad

    copperheadroad Senior Member

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    The perfect wind of 42 gauge wire can =9k ...lol But US pickup winders know that this is not necessarily a PAF recipe that is magic ..Antigua camp out ......... if you were a winder i'm sure you would have an surreal perspective ...Not this meaningless theory .
    you would have something to back up your claims .....
     
  20. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Member

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    Is there any claim in particular you are unsure about?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017

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