The capacitor thread.

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by Samantha, May 6, 2008.

  1. [Apex]

    [Apex] Member

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    Thanks for the vid Mr Rhoads, it's good to see and hear something similar to what I'm looking to achieve, I'll just be using a mini-toggle rather than a push/pull or push/push.

    Now I've heard a .015 I'm starting to think I should go with one of them rather than a .022, I'm only using 1 tone pot so I can't do a .015 and .047 for the neck and a .022 for the bridge. Anybody got any ideas about running a .015 and a .047 together through an on-on-on mini toggle?
     
  2. MrRhoads

    MrRhoads Senior Member

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    You should be able to use 3 caps with a on-on-on switch.
    I can draw something up after work if i get some time for it.
     
  3. [Apex]

    [Apex] Member

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    Mr Rhoads,

    If you could draw me a diagram for using 3 caps that would be awesome as I could have .015, .022 and .047 =]
     
  4. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    You guys are both totally out of control, you know that right? :D :laugh2: :applause:
     
  5. [Apex]

    [Apex] Member

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    How did you come to that conclusion Jonesy? Not that you're far from the truth =]

    Since signing up to this forum I've discovered so many options for guitars and I want them all, shame my curent money situation doesn't allow for me to have more than one guitar =P
     
  6. MrRhoads

    MrRhoads Senior Member

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    There you go :thumb:
    Remember you need a 3way DPDT on-on-on switch for this.
    I´ve drawn it in 50s wiring but if you place all the caps on the same lug as the pickup it will be modern wiring.
    Since the on-on-on switch is a 3way you will one have 1 cap active at the time.
    I don´t use 2caps at the same time any longer i only use 1cap/pickup.
    Good luck with the project and please post some clips or a video if you can:)

    "EDIT - It was Jonesy who first tought me how to wire up several caps and how to use them with switches;)"
     
  7. MrRhoads

    MrRhoads Senior Member

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    :D:laugh2:
     
  8. [Apex]

    [Apex] Member

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    Thanks for the diagram MrRhoads, although I'm afraid I don't totally understand how that would work. According to Guitar Wiring Site, the on-on-on switches, when in the center position would have the right side red and green, and the left side red and blue connected. Or am I just being a total n00b (which I must admit, I am a bit) ? Not meaning to 'diss' your diagram, I just want to understand how it works before wiring it together =]

    Hmm... Which caps to use... I'm thinking an RS Jensen .015, RS GuitarCap .022 and a Sprague .047.

    Unfortunately I'm going to have to wait until the 23rd to order the parts, but I will be doing a video of some sort with recordings. I'll be sure to PM you the link.

    Cheers again MrRhoads, now, I wonder what Jonesy will make of this =P
     
  9. sapi

    sapi Senior Member

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    I've tried some PIO's in my LP (Russian mil spec) vs the BBeauty Sprague, Mylar. All .022's 400v. Preferred the latter. Which do you prefer Jonesy? Or none of those? LOL.
     
  10. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Well I have had a lot of Vintage Bees and they do sound warm and smooth, but for some Gibson's I think I like the Vitamin Q pio types as they have a little more Sparkle.

    And in my Esquire I am even using some of the Larger dime sized Vintage Ceramic disc caps. it depends on the guitar, the pu's and what Tone I am going for with that particular set-up.

    My Flame-top Tele with the 10K humbucker has a push pull that splits coils and the other push pull switches between a lower value Bee and a pair of Ceramics in parallel for a really cool upper mid boost Tone ;)
     
  11. Jakeislove

    Jakeislove Senior Member

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    Looked but didn't see it explained here.

    How does a capacitor's voltage (i.e. 400 vs. 600) affect tone when used with humbuckers?
     
  12. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Voltage is not really a major issue with guitar capacitors as far as Tone goes, as there is very minimal voltage in your guitar wiring circuit. The voltage rating does affect the size of the capacitor and that can be a factor on how it fits into the cavity, but voltage is really much more critical when selecting capacitors for amplifiers.

    I prefer guitar Tone caps in the 100-400v range because they seem to be just the right size and work well with guitar wiring. I don't really care for the big giant 600-1000v capacitors, but it is mainly because of the size of them.

    The rating in micro farads uf, is what you need to be concerned with .022 is pretty typical for Humbuckers, .015 works well on the neck because it is not as dark. That is really the main thing to consider along with the type of cap it is. Ceramic, paper in oil, polypropylene etc.
     
  13. Jakeislove

    Jakeislove Senior Member

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    Thanks!!
     
  14. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    No problem ;)
     
  15. bill bokey

    bill bokey Junior Member

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    Hello from France :)
    This thread is great thank you all for so much info. I knew nothing about capacitors before I found my way here via google.
    I have a Les Paul copy I want to upgrade with a pair of Bare Knuckle The Mule. I knew the guitar had PIO caps but was still surpised to see these :


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Any idea what these are ? They look like PIO but are they really ?
    And what surprises me most is their value : .047. From what I read here that's more Strat/Tele territory.
    I don't understand the wiring but I'm gonna take it all off and do a 50's wiring.

    As I also have a 335 copy I'm gonna upgrade I was thinking of getting a couple of these from Jonesy :
    Sprague .010 uf Bumble Bee Tone Cap Genuine 1950's MOJO - eBay (item 150530011107 end time Jan-04-11 18:47:20 PST)
    and maybe some of these too :
    Capacitor USA SPRAGUE Bumble Bee 0.022µF 600V Rare Top en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 10-janv.-11 18:50:34 Paris)

    Any thoughts ?
    I heard VastHorizon's soundclips and the Bees sure sound great but as neither guitar is a real Gibson should I just buy cheaper PIOs ?

    Thanks in advance for your help :thumb:

    Bill
     
  16. bill bokey

    bill bokey Junior Member

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    I finished rewiring it 50's style using all components that came with the guitar, apart from the pups of course, they are now BK The Mule :

    [​IMG]

    Now the controls (both volume and tone) don't react the way they did before. something definetely happens around 8 on the volume pot : the volume (gain) drops quickly but more importantly the tone doesn't seem to act as a tone control anymore. With the volume between 10 and 8 the tone pot does what I expect a tone control to do, but with the volume below 8 the tone pot feels like a second volume : the sound is brighter and only the gain seems to be affected.

    Is it because of the .047 cap ?
    Or is it just meant to happen that way with the 50's wiring ?
    Or did I do something wrong, I know I'm no good at soldering...

    Cheers,
    Bill
     
  17. flquacker

    flquacker Senior Member

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    (Premised as I'm no expert) :rolleyes:

    Yes...you will find your controls (volume/tone) act very different with the 50's mod.

    If your used to sound levels and stuff, with how you've normally set your guitar controls.....find your new settings.

    As you roll of the tone, you will need to adjust volume up.

    Here's what I did...started using a fishman preamp/eq. Now I can play with the volume at 2-4 in my music room. The preamp/eq really makes the controls (stock) more user friendly and gives them a MUCH better taper (usable range). Mostly the volume.....not sure how???

    I guess because of the low volume settings on the amp....cranked up (outside) may not matter :)

    The stock pots are notorious for that effect.....did you upgrade pots?

    (I have .022's)

    It's taken a few weeks and a lot of playing to get comfortable and used to the new 50's wiring mod.....love it
     
  18. bill bokey

    bill bokey Junior Member

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  19. silent0ne

    silent0ne Member

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    If anyone is interested...I started making BB repros using NOS USA PIO caps...I wanted a more reliable NOS cap with a vintage look. I didn't want to risk paying alot for a real BB that came out some 1950 equipment - voltage and heat can make the real BB drift...people mistake this for vintage tone because it doesn't sound like a .022 - what they may be hearing is a .022 cap that degraded to .033 cap...so it sounds creamier...

    Click here to check out my stock > Click Me..

    Here is a sample of what they look like installed (this is smaller set of .015/.022)...the ones I have on e-bay right now are larger than the ones pictured here...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. merc

    merc Member

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    so please explain this for a block head where it is just not sinking in.
    the capacitors number get larger (say .022) and make the tone brighter-better for the bridge/treble/leads
    the numbers get smaller (say .015) and that makes the tone deeper for rythm.
    Is that right?
     

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