The 2017 Shaw Revival (my 82 CAR Standard, 2 Shaws and 1 Notta Shawatol)

Discussion in 'Pickups' started by DarrellV, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    I have been waiting to start this topic till I knew when my Shaws were going to arrive back to me.
    They have been gone out for a rewind for many weeks now, since before Thanksgiving.

    If any of you have considered using the services of one of our MLP winders or wondered what it would be like to have your own pickups rewound , or a custom set made, I hope this thread can shed some light on the experience.

    The biggest thing to deal with is time. I've seen other threads in here of folks going through the same waiting game as I went through.

    Don't do this with an axe you cannot be without any time soon. Have a backup!



    Many of you know by way of my now legendary post about how i came to be reunited with my 34 year lost lester. The deetz are here.
    http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/ca...raculous-story-of-your-lp-acquisition.399996/

    My 34 year old lost love, LOL, on my NGD! Sept 2016
    Well, it turned out that some schmuck before me decided to pot the Shaw pickups in wax!

    And if that wasn't bad enough, it looks like he did it on the stovetop!
    [​IMG]
    A totally messy job that not only ruined any PAF qualities they may have had, but he also cooked the coil tape right off!

    I had wondered when I got it back last September why the neck pickup sat tipped in the body.

    Turns out the guy couldn't solder either and had left the covers so stretched out across the baseplate that the edge of the cover hit the wood on the side of the route!

    I have read enough to know what potting is for and the pros and cons.

    I even considered finding ways to cook or dissolve the wax out of the windings.
    Just Kidding!.......
    [​IMG]

    I checked with a couple of the winders in here and my worst fears were confirmed. There was no going back. The damage was permanent. I was told short of cutting the coils off and winding with fresh copper, it cannot be undone.

    So that nameless faceless poophead is now burned into my subconscious for his dastardly act!
    [​IMG]

    I've waited for 34 years to hear what this thing is supposed to sound like, and now I can't because rather than swap them out with any number of aftermarket high gain pickups, some clown potted these....[​IMG]

    I want to hear what the legendary Shaw pickup was supposed to sound like in my guitar!

    Needless to say this sore spot festered and grew till one day recently I said the heck with re-sale or OEM! I'm not planning on ever selling it anyway!

    I also reasoned that unlike the original PAF's the material for the Shaws was still available and in use. Including the red poly wire. :dude:

    So in my mind I figured the outcome could only be better. It couldn't hurt anything but resale.

    After all, every other component like the magnets, pole pieces and spacers would all be re-used.
    So nothing would be altered from OEM spec. including the use of the same spec wire used in the original.

    I guess we'll see....

    Honorable mention:

    Dave from Sigil Pickups has offered to generously provide pictures and content from his side of the project as we go along..... I haven't even seen them all yet, and am looking forward to it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  2. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    How I met Dave at Sigil Pickups..

    I had opened up a conversation with Dave back in June after seeing his ads for his latest creations using plain enamal NOS wire.

    I watched the reviews by those two old guys on youtube and was impressed by what I heard and what was possible by using material actually from the same time period.

    So I struck up a casual dialog in one of his topics he had going at the time and pretty soon it seemed like we had a lot in common.

    One day I sent him a PM 'just for fun' and wondering if he had any single coil for Strat pickups since I didn't need any hummers at the moment.

    I have Shaws, remember? I'm good! LOL!

    Well, that conversation went on over the months as we shared different ideas and interests so when the festering sore hit critical mass I popped the question of rewinding my Shaws to him.
    *************************************************************************************
    "I wanted to update my pickup request from single coils to a PAF replica. A Tim Shaw actually.
    I confirmed my fears over the weekend that some meathead (metalhead?) in the past wax potted my Shaws! :eek2:

    I'm not really happy about it! :mad2:

    There are so many choices in aftermarket out there why ruin the OEM pups! :facepalm:

    Looks like they dipped them in a can as the bottom of the baseplate has a thick covering of wax on it too...:mad2:

    So now I'm wondering if it would be more financially feasible to just get the coils re-wound if I can supply all the rest of the parts?

    Is the Shaw spec poly wire still available, I would think it is also making it more affordable than say specialty wire.

    I also wouldn't mind changing out the gold covers for new. I'd like the guitar to look new again, I'm not concerned with ever selling it."
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  3. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    His reply edited for content:

    "You broke my heart a little on those Shaws.
    [​IMG]

    I had a serious Shaw addiction a few years ago and tried to get a set from every year. It took a while but I was only missing the 86 year by the time I decided to pass them on and keep just one set. I'm a Shaw guy through and through even though there's a lot of hate out there. Now being such a fan, you'd think I would have cloned the damn things a lot sooner than I did! It was only a month or so ago that I decided to see how I could fare and the results were spectacular. I plan to add them to my site some day but I'm in no rush. Potted Shaws is a sad story that I'm also familiar with. I had a set come in from eBay that were so entombed the covers came off and it was a solid brick in there. There's no coming back.

    I have some poly here that's ideal for Shaws. There were two types of wire used on them; bright red and bright copper/orange. The red ones always sounded a bit sweeter to me and that's what I used on my clones. The orange wire was the same stuff used on every other Gibson pickup at the time and has a dull look and dull sound. Perfect for T-Tops with an A5 magnet but the Shaws used A2 which seems to it a little nicer with the red stuff. I find it closer to PE than the other poly but it's still much less costly."
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  4. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Experiments in Tone Chasing reveal the weaknesses in my Shaws!

    In my next PM to Dave I described some experiments I had been doing and some observations on the sound of the Shaws in my guitar.

    Keep in mind, YMMV and I am presenting my observations as just that.

    I am hoping to maybe help someone else who is able to hear what I am describing or is going through something similar with their own pickups to know they are not crazy!

    Anyone considering a rewind will also be pleased with how affordable it is! I was as you can see in the first line of my reply....


    "Wow! That's very reasonable! I had no idea, obviously, so I figured it would be into the hundreds a piece!

    I have never heard what they were supposed to sound like, but I do believe I can hear what they DON'T have!

    They sound very solid tone wise, not a lot of spacial harmonics just a solid bell like tone on the neck which is not unpleasant in itself, it is not at all muddy, just SOLID with a very focused fundamental and not much else.


    The bridge is so weak I had to raise it up to within almost touching the strings to get it to balance with the neck, which is sunk into the body.

    What really brought the problem to light was the recent re-fret I had. The guitar is now much brighter than before. So much so that I am having to use the tone controls or back the volume off to lower the harshness... yes harshness! From a Shaw??!!

    The other day I thought about something I had read on here about adding a magnet to the baseplate to boost the output, so I got a couple ceramic bars off the bottom of my old MIM single coils and slapped them on the bottom of the bridge pickup.

    After getting the orientation right I tested the poles on the neck and bridge pups with a screwdriver and the bridge had noticeably more pull.

    The results were very surprising and pleasing to me. This weak pup now had a more full sound that sustained noticeably longer, but also made my playing easier and more responsive! It goes into a mild fuzz around the edges if you get into it a little harder and gives me a more pleasant OD effect when I need it.

    What made it really stand out to me was that I had just used the OD settings over the weekend on a song we do.

    When I played the same riff with the magnet mod I noticed how much easier it was on my pick hand to play!
    I had been beating my fingers to death and hitting the strings so hard they rattled to get the sound I was now hearing with a much less aggressive hit to the strings.

    Sorry this is long, but I'm hoping to illustrate what I am hearing as to what I would like to hear using words, which suck at conveying sound!

    Maybe the magnet just needs a recharge, as you say, or maybe I need a hybrid Shaw with a little stronger magnet, your call on that. I don't plan on ever selling her, so I don't really care about mods. They are ruined anyway! :mad2:"
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  5. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Shaws and the effects of wax potting on pickups...


    Dave says:

    "The thing about Shaws...they are bright! They can be harsh in the wrong guitar and they will need control usage to tame them. If the magnets are weak it only gets worse. They have a smoothness though that's hard to replicate and I've only ever heard in one other pickup done to perfection. I used to have a set of Skatterbrane T-Shawbranes and Rod nailed the T-top/Shaw combo. They sounded like Shaws with balls in a Les Paul but then sounded like T-Tops in a slab guitar like my Explorer. It was a hell of a setup! The thing about Skatts though is Rod told me he winds all his coils exactly the same and by hand, just varies the offset and magnet to shape tone. All Skatterbrane pickups had that pleasing buttery feel to them in different degrees but the T-Shawbranes were perfection. I sold them off as had a huge collection of real Shaws and real T-tops so felt no need to have clones.

    Wax potting is hotly debated as to the effect. To me, it kills the overtones and liveliness of a pickup while leaving the overall tone intact. The coil needs to breath to get a proper PAF thing going on and wax suffocates the coil without mercy. I guess some people can't hear the difference between a potted and unpotted pickup but my guess is that you're in the group who can. I both envy and pity those who can't as they'll never get a true appreciation for the nuances between pickups but they'll have a cheaper and quicker tone journey!
    [​IMG]


    Strapping a magnet to the back will definitely increase output but it'll also change the overall tone as that Ceramic will mostly override the A2. It might actually eat the charge out of the A2 over time but that's reversible. Whatever you do, make sure you keep those Shaw magnets as they are a huge part of the formula and damn hard to find on their own. They're a special pour that was used only on those pickups. Even with the wax you could possibly sell those Shaws but without the real magnet they're worthless."

     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  6. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    C'mon, is wax potting really THAT noticeable..

    CheopisIV (Dave) said:
    I guess some people can't hear the difference between a potted and unpotted pickup but my guess is that you're in the group who can. I both envy and pity those who can't as they'll never get a true appreciation for the nuances between pickups but they'll have a cheaper and quicker tone journey!

    My reply:

    Agreed! I refer to it as a double edged sword!
    It makes my setups a lengthy, months long process of tuning and tweaking to get the intonation perfect.
    I cannot stand any warble whatsoever! Drives me crazy!

    I don't do thrash metal high gain machine gun guitar work. If you get a chance to listen to some of the link I sent you, you will see that I use different tones to shape my playing. I would rather exploit a sweet sounding tone than bury it in raucous distortion.

    But I also do some that use a nice creamy old fashion fuzz OD that sounds almost like a violin...

    Speaking of my ears - A couple weeks ago we played at a park with other local talent and a couple hillbillies showed up to play old Neal Young songs without even bothering to tune! I kid you not, they were not just mildly out of tune, the were WIDELY out of tune.
    Amplified through cheap old stereo speakers dissonance for days! I actually got nauseous and my head ached by the time they were done. I couldn't leave because our group was setting up for our turn!

    So yes, your work will be under the microscope of my ears, but if its in there, I will hear it! I WANT to hear it!

     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  7. WhiteEpiLP

    WhiteEpiLP Senior Member

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    Apparently we have alot in common.
    I too love unpotted pickups, love me some candy apple red lps (dont own one but would give my left nut for one) and we have the same name but mine is splet with a "yl".
    I hope these pups are everthing you are looking for and I'd have a hard time putting covers on em, zebras are sweet.
     
  8. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Thank you all around! Pleased to meet you, brother... How's Larry!:laugh2:

    There's plenty more to come including pics from the cleanup process from Dave once we get a little further along! I haven't even seen those yet...:Ohno:

    I asked him if he wouldn't mind documenting the process for posterity for me, and then he suggested making a joint thread using both our pics. I of course, jumped at the chance.

    He has also said he will be dropping some techie points in here to for those who like to hear things from the winder point of view! :cool2:

    But the covers, yeah, I struggled with that too as I love the zebras. So I thought I would go with a set of these for now..
    Best of both worlds!


    With the zebras showing before rewind...

     
  9. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    What makes a Shaw special....


    After listening to a video clip I sent him where I use my setup with my MIM Strat, we discuss what I am hearing, and what I am looking for to give Dave a better picture (using words,LOL!) of what I am looking for.

    My Strat has 2 Rio Grande hummers, so I am not comparing singles, FYI.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I can't seem to get it (that sound from the Strat) on the Lester..

    The Lester seems 'scooped' for lack of a better term.

    It has the bell like fundamental, but none of the thickening overtones that the Rio Grandes have. They just sound -flat- by comparison.

    I would like the bridge a little hotter than it is if possible.

    When you get it and can test the magnet, see if it is just weak and needs strengthening.

    I can leave the ceramics on the bridge unit if you like so you can get an idea of the strength of magnet that is getting me to where I like it.

    Maybe that or a few extra winds, i dunno, you are the expert. An 8 K Shaw? LOL!:eek2:


    Dave wrote:

    Haha, nothing wrong with an 8K Shaw although I've only seen them 7.2-7.6k and purely even wound. Definitely leave the ceramic on there and I can check Gauss at the poles to see how it's affecting things. I can vary the charge but only up to the actual capability of the magnet. If it's a weak magnet, I'll replace it and send the original back loose and one of mine in the pickup.

    Me:

    But....but..... I though the tonez were in the magnet! :eek2:
    Its what makes them special.....:Ohno:
    How can you replace something like that?? :shock:
    My illusions..... shattered! :run:

    [​IMG]

    Dave:

    Depends! Mostly the coil geometry leads to tonez, the magnets take what's there and enhance certain aspects.

    Those mags ARE special to the Shaw tone but my A2 (any rough A2 really) can get reasonably close. Just close though! I'm hoping it's just a weak mag and I can pump it up to good range of Gauss. Actually, since I'd have both apart, I can compare and put the more powerful one in the bridge to give it a bit more oomph. Will need to dig in to diagnose ...but there are options!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  10. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Should I go to a Bridge Spaced (53mm) pickup?


    Hi Dave!

    I discovered something the other night that is going to change the bridge pickup specs considerably.

    I have mentioned i would like the bridge pickup boosted a bit, but last night I made a startling discovery.

    Mainly that pole alignment DOES matter!

    When I posed the question on here a while back others had commented that pole alignment isn't critical since the bar magnet's field is bigger and encompasses the strings regardless of pole position.

    I have proved that this is not so, at least for me..:eek2:

    I discovered that bending the high E string upward through a clean low volume amp results in a very noticeable volume swell!

    Just like a pedal!

    That explains the weak response I've been getting and the loss clarity in my suspended chords on the higher E string!

    So I measured my string spacing and as luck would have it they are 2 and 1/16th from E to E!

    That should be the Gibson bridge space standard!

    So, it looks like I will need the bridge pickup and cover done up with Gibson Bridge spacing instead of the old way.

    I understand this will mean a new baseplate, keepers and bobbins, but I have no choice, really. The magnet can be re-used.

    Unless you already have something made with the same Shaw materials and I'll just have the neck re-wound...

    Oh, and BTW! I took a screw out last night and discovered I have cream bobbins!!!!!!
    (These later turned out to be lovely zebras, remember you are reading along the timeline with me, this was before the rest became known to me)

    I was considering having you include the covers, but not solder them on so I can see how i like open cream coils on it!

    Since I don't play high gain, I'm not too worried about feedback if I decide to stick them back on unsoldered...

    Thanks again, Dave!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  11. WhiteEpiLP

    WhiteEpiLP Senior Member

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    Ha Larry.
    If i had a nickel for every time someone ask where my brother Darryl was I'd be rich. Not to mention how many times ive corrected them when they say my names Daryl this is my brother Darryl and this is my other brother Darrell. I mean if your gonna try to insult me at least get the quote right.
     
  12. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    And I love it when they think they are the first one to say it, like I've never heard it before... :facepalm:

    I used to say my life was boring before Newhart! No one had a line for Darrell's, LOL!

    BTW I loved the show! Have some tapes and disks home!:dude:
     
  13. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Pole Pieces and Flux Capacitors.....or 53mm! It can't be done!
    [​IMG]
    Dave:

    It makes sense that you'd hear a difference going up over the poles. They're a focal point of the magnetic field and definitely will boost the output! Moreso with covers... just look how they peek out of those tiny holes? Really good quality covers will alter the tone less, but still will change it some by dropping the peak of the highs. I've done extensive testing with all kinds of covers and even the most 'transparent' will clip the top off the highs in subtle ways. Empirical evidence: If I take my Gauss meter and run it along the bobbin, I get significantly higher readings over the poles VS over the plastic between the poles.

    Bad news, I only have materials for 49.2mm and sounds like you'd want a 52 or 53mm bridge. Changing the width of the bobbins would alter the Shaw properties significantly as well and need a bunch more engineering and figuring.

    Me:

    Ack! Yur killin' me, Smalls!
    You can't get the wider spaced components?
    Well that really stinks because I can't continue to use them the way they are now.

    I'm not a winder, so please forgive me for thinking out loud, but would it really be that horrible?

    The Shaw magnet has plenty of extra length and we are only talking an extra 3/16th of an inch (3 mm) in keeper length.

    The only thing I can see being only slightly different is the cross section of the coil, if the ohms and turns were kept exact, being only slightly thinner.

    Since I wanted a little more beef any way and I kidded you earlier about an 8K Shaw couldn't we wind it to the higher end of 7K?

    If need be I can try to source the parts to send with it... Just a thought.

    I'm not a purist. I know it won't technically be the same as OEM, but to me they are already ruined by the potting, and then the re-wind.

    Changing the spacing doesn't scare me. I know you can get it close enough and still be better sounding than what it is now.


    Are you up for a challenge? In talking with you I know you are also a bit of an engineer and fix it yourselfer. So am I!

     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  14. WhiteEpiLP

    WhiteEpiLP Senior Member

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    That and when the simpsons did the Homer at bat episode with Daryl Strawberry. DARYL, DARYL, DARYL.
     
  15. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Yeah, that guy! I remember thinking that it HAD to be a made up stage name or something! First a Darrell, then STRAWBERRY???
     
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  16. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Boldly going where this winder has never gone before..

    OK, so I'm a pushy old cuss....
    Dave seemed like a really down to earth can do kind of guy with a real knack for fixing things up himself and making things work. I was betting I could talk him into it with fingers crossed, of course!

    Me:
    Found these this am. Still only 20 bucks and everything matches including the cover. These are 53mm parts. With 1 foot of lead wire.


    Dave:

    I'll wind up a Shaw style 50mm (or even 52mm if you want to get crazy!) but they'l be an experiment. Could be fun though!

    To answer your question, (wider the coil) the further it goes from Vintage land. Does it matter? Probably less so than most believe but the coil does change in big ways over the course of 1mm or greater. Picture the wire wrapped around the coil form; it's tighter on the ends where it makes the curve then loose on the flat. I can adjust tension but it'll always be loose on the flat...just physics! The longer the flat, the looser the wire. Potting (bleh) becomes more and more necessary the longer the bobbin.


    Pickup winding 101

    Pickups can definitely be boomy, especially in the neck.

    The biggest factor in this (or maybe easiest to remedy?) is the coil offset. When the coils are perfectly even, they cancel hum perfectly but also cancel highs. Offsetting one or the other changes how the highs leak through. Shaws, T-tops...pretty much everything from Gibson after ~1960 are even coils. Magnets help that somewhat but not always.

    Shaws and T-tops typically are the exact same Neck and Bridge with 5000 turns per coil. Variance is small. T-Tops use a different poly wire than the Shaws did, T-Tops also used A5 and Shaws A2 of some special blend. The bridge pickup sits is a terrible place and doesn't see a lot of string vibration compared to the neck (also look at harmonic nodes if you want to get really technical) so a hotter wound bridge pup has more wire and therefore more output potential and volume to compensate. Putting the same spec 7k pickup in each position means the neck needs to drop and the bridge needs to come up a lot more than a more balanced setup with lower k neck. In 1980, Gibson put a double thickness ceramic magnet in their bridge T-Tops of certain models which helped big time in improving the volume balance. Surprisingly, it didn't really change the sound as much as it should but that goes back to the coils being the meat of the sound.

    Coils determine potential for output and overall tone, magnets emphasize what's already there...I guess you could say magnets are the EQ/amp of a pickup if we're talking general sense and ignoring all the other factors. Coil geometry is one of those infinitely adjustable things too with the most common change being to tension and TPL. With my Geos, I can wind anywhere from ~7 Turns Per Layer to over 800! Of course doing the math, 42pe can really only fit up to ~95 TPL or below on a standard bucker bobbin before it completely overlaps.

     
  17. LpCustom2007

    LpCustom2007 Senior Member

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    Considering youre putting extra magnets on the bridge, changing pole piece distances etc, I think everything youre changing is taking you further from the original Shaw sound than the wax potting did.
    Ymmv though and I hope youll end up with something you like!
    I have a Shaw in one of my lps, its nice and I like it, but its not that special really (to me). I have modern paf clones I like better.
     
  18. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Yup! That's what Dave was getting at.. What we would end up with is the notta Shaw!
     
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  19. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    The birth of the 53mm Not Shaw

    Dave:

    I'll wind up a Shaw style 50mm (or even 52mm if you want to get crazy!) but they'l be an experiment. Could be fun though!


    Me:
    That's the spirit!:cheers2:

    I did some basic math (not meth!) on the amount of coil wire difference 3 MM makes.

    Over 5000 turns at 3mm per side (x2 for a complete turn) it comes out to be an additional 30 meters of wire!
    5000 turns X 6mm per turn=30000mm.
    divide 30000 by 1000 = 30 meters....
    or to me 98.5 ft.

    Just wondering if that might be enough to give it more juice in itself, without 'overwinding it' to more than 5000 turns....

    Maybe not, because in the coil wire world that may not add up to a hill of beans...

    That's where your expertise is going to come in.

    Dave:

    Hmmm...you may be onto something. I bet they would elongate the inner form as well. It wouldn't necessary have to be an extra 3mm as there's a bit of room between the flange and screw housing but for simplicity they probably would. So then if the meth; err, Math isn't broken, a 5000 turn coil on 53mm should be ~10% hotter than a 5000 turn coil on 49.2mm which isn't too bad for a balanced approach. It's not linear as the amount of wire going down changes as it builds up on the form, but it should be a general ballpark.

    Tell you what...I'll stop at 5k and see where it leaves things and then gauge if it's good enough. The coil will be wider so will have a bit more bass as is and the extra 10% will add some depth and volume. I personally prefer my bridge pickup to be 8-10% hotter than my neck pickup. And one of my secrets that's not really so secret; that's exactly how my best seller Chicago '68 set is done. Bridge is identical to the Neck except 10% hotter. All the rest of my pickups are handled differently.

    Me:

    Now THAT sounds like a plan, my friend! Good to hear you are getting comfortable with the idea...:cheers:

    Lookout world, here comes SIGIL Trembuckers! 10% more beef in every burger!:laugh2:

    As far as I know, and I've done some checking on it, the bobbins must still be the same size outside, as they will fit into a standard size cover and route.

    The mm sizing only refers to the internal POLE spacing, the bobbin itself is no bigger on the outside.

    So that being said, the INTERNAL wind area around the poles MUST be bigger by the 3mm width increase from pole to pole.

    This would seem to indicate less depth for winding, at least on the ends of the bobbin, by 1.5mm.

    The sides would remain the same depth and with the added distance between poles the math would still seem to apply.

    EDIT: Only MORE so: 6mm per turn assumes only the distance between poles, not the WIND DIAMETER, which grows larger on the ends as the diameter of the wind increases with each layer!

    Wooh! In actuality we could end up with 4 times more of the amount extra than the basic math says. 8K Shaw, here we come! LOL! I will be curious to see how it works in the end after 5000 myself...

     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  20. DarrellV

    DarrellV Make the Switch for the Better! Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    Some of the parts came in today.

    Here's some pics to get an idea.

    The bobbins are the same size, but the wrap width is slightly less on the ends of the bobbins.


    Hey Dave!
    The rest of the parts have arrived and I have everything boxed and ready to ship. :hyper:

    I gutted the poor old girl last night...:oops:




    So I boxed them up and sent them off! That left me this to look at until they returned...

    Happier days....
     
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