Taking Flight With Vibrato

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by SlapChop, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Read and take note of this youngsters out there, because they are about the most truthful words you'll ever read on a guitar forum coming from a man who has a vast experience of the business and who has probaby met more of these guys than you have had hot dinners.

    So just where are you young guys as Huw asked? Is it just us few old contemtibles in here.
    For heavens sake come forward and join in with your views. Nobody is going to bite your head off.
    I'd like to think most youngsters aren't joining in because they feel out of their depth rather than they actually think Slash tone is the answer to everything.

    Listen kids. To learn you must ask questions. If you don't ask questions and just take things as Gospel you'll never learn anything .
    The biggest killer these days seems to be the failure to be able to communicate. In fact an exam on communication skills should be introduced as mandatory in every bloody school and college.
    Be inquisitive..Ask questions.. Put forward your own ideas.. Be an individual.
     
  2. goatbreath

    goatbreath Banned

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  3. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    Phew - I think I'm in a different time zone to you guys. This thread jumped on since I was last here... :)

    Roman, that's nice playing, no two ways about it. Nice tone too, I can hear your fingers at work there. :)

    Wreckingball - welcome to the choir. glad you're finding useful stuff on the forum, and if some of it came from me, well let's just thank the folk who told it to me in the first place - I just share, I'm not originating :)

    Goatbreath - glad you like the Bartok. I love that Debussy. He is the guy that opened the floodgates and gave birth to the 20th century in music, no contest. I love that early period of the last century - post Wagner & pre Schoenberg (although I like those guys too). So many of my favourites are from that period: Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy, Satie, Prokofiev, Bartok, Vaughn Williams. What an time to have been writing music!
     
  4. goatbreath

    goatbreath Banned

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    Prokofiev's Scythian Suite and Stravinsky's Firebird are two real favourites..
    Vaughan Williams it's more is there anything I don't like..All the stuff you mention though I am fond of..Rimsky Korsakov's Le Coq Dor sounds like the predecessor to the Firebird I think..Apparently RK taught Prokofiev,,Ravel and Stravinsky.I think I've got that right anyway.I think he may have taught Respighi as well..

    I can really hear him in the two pieces I mention..Ravel's introduction and Allegro is Just Gorgeous too..All that French Harp stuff..:D

    Sorted,,took off that Jazz..Now listening to Scythian suite conducted by Kondrashin,,On vinyl through valves..Maybe put on Rachmaninov's Syphonic Dances and Isle of the dead next..

    Prokofiev,,Seven they are Seven.:dude:..Death Metal is for wimps:laugh2:
     
  5. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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  6. SlapChop

    SlapChop Senior Member

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    I'm blown away at what this thread has developed into. From a simple question about vibrato technique, into all of this. Wow. :)

    So there's really more to playing guitar than just scales and power chords? :laugh2:


    I felt like this was me typing the above statements out, Roman. I feel the exact same way about my abilities and I couldn't have said it better myself. :shock: Your playing sounded good to me. :thumb:

    Here's something I worked on over the weekend. Something really far outside what I'd call my genre or my comfort zone. I just started playing along with a drum pattern and it developed into this. The parts where vibrato was used, it was used subtle way.

    SoundClick artist: Tangled up in Tweed - page with MP3 music downloads
     
  7. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :laugh2:
    Hi wreckingball. That doesn't surprise me in the least.
    It's a real pity because so many people could benefit greatly from someone like Howard Goodall's approach to music.
    I have been in this game ever since I left school back in 1962 and I certainly learned a great deal from that series.
    The trouble today I think that unlike back in the 60's when you basically had to sit down with an old record player to work stuff out, it's all got to be instant.

    Everybody wants to be there yesterday and even in some schools and colleges, if the kid can't play like Clapton in three weeks, there is either something wrong with their guitar.. The planets are not aligned, or simply the guitar teacher must be crap.:laugh2:
    The county drum teacher told me that a year or so back a kid started drums at Christmas. At Easter he gets a letter from the parents informing him that they didn't want their son to have drum lessons next term.

    The reason being ' He can play the drums now so next term he's going to learn the saxophone'. :hmm:

    When you've got parents like that, what on earth can you expect?



    What I would really like to know is why so many people aren't interested, in say that Howard Goodall series, or for that matter debates like we are having in this thread.

    Is it because of an inability to express themselves and communicate.

    Is it because they think this really has nothing to do with guitar playing.

    Do they think they already know all there is to know and that the likes of us are just a bunch of rambling old farts who lost the plot years ago. ( In my case probably true :laugh2: )

    Is it just too much like hard work getting to all these chords and things under your belt.

    Do they think that music has nothing to do with what we have been talking about. Emotion is for girls and the answer really lies in Slash tone and how fast they can play.

    Personally I think it's a mixture of all the above, which is a pity as I'm sure there are some very talented kids passing through here.



    It's a bit like one young kid who wrote a thread not so long ago who asked if anyone thought he was strange because he didn't often go out with the lads drinking etc and was at his happiest practising his guitar.. Jesus! You should have seen the banal replies he recieved, some down right rude.
    I stuck up for him and told him to take no notice of these arseholes as at least he had the skills to express himself. I think the lad left shortly after that thread.. Pity.

    One has to also see guitar forums as model railway clubs where a few hold fort and have their trusted disciples. These are usually the people that promise everyone instant success with guitar lessons that are so revolutionary that you can basically forget what anyone has ever written in the past and 'You only have to watch where I put my fingers and you too can play like me over night'. ( Which is generally not very good and with about as much feel as a cold Haddock on a marble slab). A classic case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing I'm afraid. :laugh2:

    The world is full of them and if you ever get the time, read my little fictitious tale of Stan which I posted backstage some years ago. Yes it's ironical and sarcastic, but boy I bet we all know one or two.:laugh2:

    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/backstage/14032-do-you-know-stan.html#post222412
     
  8. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    I agree with you on that Roman. I prefer Hendrix to Beck.
    Don't get me wrong, I think Beck is a great player. but one can only take so much of wailing instrumentals which is what all he seems to do these days. I much prefer the earlier rawer Beck. It all sounds a bit contrived and worked out nowdays.
    Notice though that Beck hardly, if ever uses finger vibrato. Whether he's not very good at it, or he simply chooses not to I don't know. It's whammy bar all the time.

    I'm crap with a whammy bar and block off all my Strats to hardtails. I could never get on with the things.:laugh2:
     
  9. goatbreath

    goatbreath Banned

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  10. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    :laugh2: Yeah I read that..:applause:
    Well there's always one somewhere like that. He sounds like a complete prick and personally I wouldn't have given him the time of day let alone give him notice.

    This happened to me once at a blues band rehearsal. I just got so fed up playing the same old blues licks that on Stormy Monday I played it a little jazzier. After we had finished the pianist comes over and says " Wow! I really enjoyed that ", but the harmonica player was sitting in the corner sulking.
    When asked what was wrong he said that bloody guitar solo. :laugh2:
    He then come up to me aggressively and suggests I sit there listening to the T Bone Walker recording and copy the notes exactly.
    I hit the fucking roof and said 'listen old son if you want T bone Walker then go out and fucking hire him, I play it my way". :laugh2:
    He never liked me, and I never liked him. It was about a 7 piece band, so I didn't have a great deal to do with him and he left shortly after anyway.
    I don't mind constructive criticism or suggestions, but I really can't stand these anal types who think they know it all.
     
  11. goatbreath

    goatbreath Banned

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    Looking at the actual thread doesn't really display how bad this guy was really..He played an a Major chord instead of a Minor when demonstrating how I should play a song..It actually said A minor on the sheet. Apparently he didn't deal with fancy stuff like that.So therefore I shouldn't..He ignored point blank any questions I asked about the music..Ever so often giving me a look of contempt..He looked at me completely stunned when I put my earplugs in when the music got too loud..Like he was going to punch me..

    The other guitarist his friend could barely play,so if his mate was messing up he referred to both of us..Even if I Emailed him about next weeks practice he completely blanked me.But he would send me huge lists of songs I was supposed to learn...He continually spoke down to me saying I wouldn't be able to play things,,I could play when I was 21..When I said this to the other guitarist he said that that was my ego talking and that is just how Andy is..Of course when practice time came he wouldn't do any of the songs I had been asked to learn..

    Once he even used up all the plugs and I had nowhere to plug in..He just started the practice anyway and when I tried to communicate with him he looked at me like I was a piece of sh*t..He stood at the other end of the room and conducted throwing scowls at everyone..

    They had went through several guitarists who were apparently all ar*eholes with huge ego's ...The other guitarist had several Gibson Les Pauls including a 1950s Custom..

    He made me put my guitar right next to the other guitarists amp..I couldnt hear myself properly and he still kept telling me to turn down..The other guitarist was using mega distortion on what were meant to be gentle songs..I tried to tell him and he took a tantrum..He was always in a offended mood because the whole world was apparently always being insulting to him..The other guitarist also couldn't play in time properly..

    I got involved as I am just getting back into it..I took a couple of years off after some other arsehole had tried to keep my Marshall amp hostage so I wouldn't leave that situation...He still has my Marshall..It also made me not want to look at a guitar for two years...I get back into it and I am confronted with this..

    The funny thing was the bass player said that there was no room for any egos in HIS band..that was because his filled all the space I thought...He was apparently in an early incarnation of Deacon Blue..I do not believe him one bit..All the other people bar the Drummer were new to playing in bands..The thing was Phil he was about your age,,Old enough to know better and also if he had been around the block,,he didn't even think that an electro acoustic guitar should go through the PA but a small distorting combo amp instead..


    The whole thing was so surreal it was hard for me to take in it was happening,,but the other guitar player was totally manipulating me,,now the situation is past I can see this..When you are in the middle of it ,,it's really hard to take in that some people are that bizzare..
     
  12. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    Sounds like a complete nightmare goatbreath. Jesus I don't think I could have taken that arsehole for more than two minutes.
    Unfortunately not all arseholes are young and there are plenty of my age as well.. Vasco for a start..:laugh2:

    The thing is that in the pro world, unless it was his band and he was paying the wages, nobody would put up with someone like that for five minutes.
    I could imagine him talking like that to Mick Hawksworth..:laugh2:
    He'd be walking around with a mic stand sticking out of his arse.

    Those people are generally grey area wanna be's with delusions of grandeur. In other words, complete Prats. If you read that 'Stan' link I posted above you'll see that I mention a guy just like that, who lives round here.

    Of course you get a lot of known artists who are up their own arse as well . Tell me about it, I've worked with a few, :rolleyes: , but then they are paying good wages, so you either put up with them or get out.

    I have heard some real horror tales from sidemen about named artists everyone would know on this forum.

    Luckily though, there are generally more nice people out there than arseholes. Not many mind you, but a few..:laugh2:
     
  13. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    No surprise SlapChop.
    You posted a very good thread question and you communicate well.
    More credit to yourself Sir.:dude:

    P.S. I like your phrasing at 0:49..:dude:
     
  14. SlapChop

    SlapChop Senior Member

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    Thanks Phil. I admit, I got a little dumbfounded in the middle of the thread when the discussion got way above my skill set and I had nothing insightful to add, but I was here all along soaking up the goodness.
     
  15. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    It really doesn't matter SlapChop. Getting in over your head is what it's all about and you aren't afraid to ask questions either.. And that is what separates people who are likely to go somewhere from those who aren't.
     
  16. mudfinger

    mudfinger Thanks for the memories! V.I.P. Member

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    Quoted for truth. :thumb:
     
  17. Lampens

    Lampens Senior Member

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    I was in over my head with some of the theory stuff for a long time in here. And then one time it clicked and I could figure out all these things and see how they all connected. Still at basic theory stuff, but that's enough for now. :) Don't see how I would need all the advanced stuff yet.
     
  18. mudfinger

    mudfinger Thanks for the memories! V.I.P. Member

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    I tend to think this is an effective means of learning, in general. Immerse yourself in the subject, overwhelm yourself, even...then, let it all settle in, and...surprise! One day, you understand it. The human brain is the most powerful computer there ever was, but it seems to operate outside of our conscious awareness alotta the time. While you sleep, your brain is hard at work making sense out of your day. Tricky bastards, those human brains. :laugh2:
     
  19. Phil47uk

    Phil47uk Senior Member

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    You don't Lampens. All you need is your imagination.

    Something sadly lacking in some people though I fear.

    Kids at school once asked me what I did when I was their age back in London some ten years after the war.:laugh2:

    You should have seen their faces when I told them..There were no X boxes. There were no mobile phones. There were no computers, we simply used our imagination. :shock:

    I lived in a huge old Edwardian house in Highbury in London. Just opposite these.. My old house is long since gone. These have all been renovated since I left London.

    [​IMG]

    This was after the war remember and their were bomb sites all over the place. A House here, a house there with big gaps in between,

    [​IMG]

    Next door to me was OK, but the house next to that was rubble.

    Here's me aged about 11 in the front garden with my first guitar. It cost my Mum £3 and she had to save for ages to get it. And that ground floor window just above my head is where my mate shouted out one morning as I was sitting on the stairs.. " Phil! Buddy Holly's dead". I can remember it as it were yesterday.:shock:

    [​IMG]

    The old brick wall in next doors house was about ten foot tall and was bowed out like a banana because of the bomb blast and had a massive stone pillar at one end.
    But hey!.. That brick wall was our spaceship to Mars.. It was the Flying Scotsman as we brought the brick wall train into the station.
    The huge 200 foot back gardens were overgrown and unbeknown to us the Council had daubed red X's on some trees to indicate which were to be chopped down in order to build more houses behind us, as the whole row had dissapeared in an incendiary raid.
    Red X's..:wow: That could only mean one thing.. The Martians had caught us napping and were leaving marker trails for a scouting party.. Holy shit!.
    None of us slept well that night and in the morning gathered a bunch of others and went down there in a gang. I wore my Mum's metal spaghetti colander on my head and had a battery powered toy ray gun that shone white green and red.
    How it could zap and melt Martians yet just shine like a torch on my mates or on the wall I didn't really give much thought to back then.:hmm:

    My mates elder brother suggested I set it to red coz we may be in for real trouble.. Jesus I nearly shit myself ..:laugh2:

    I look back all those years ago and laugh at how all stupid it was, but I tell you what. I wouldn't have changed a thing, because it fed something in me that I think every child should have.. Imagination.

    Sorry to get off topic..Me rambling again.. But having said that it, I think it does relate to ones playing in later life.

    :)
     
  20. mudfinger

    mudfinger Thanks for the memories! V.I.P. Member

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    Just try to deny that you don't still do that from time to time...:laugh2::thumb:

    I always preferred a kettle; more substantial protection against lasers. :cool:
     

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