Strange truss rod on 1990 Orville LPC-75

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by pAtwick, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. pAtwick

    pAtwick Junior Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Hi,

    I just got a white 1990 Orville LPC-75 made in Terada. When I took a look under the truss rod cover I was surprised not to find a Gibson type adjustment nut but what looks like more like a Fender type allen wrench shaped hole on the end of the rod. The top of the rod is also quite deep in the cavity (about 1,5 cm).

    What do you think? Is this normal for this type guitar? Has the truss rod been replaced or is something missing from it?

    Here are some pictures:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. UITA

    UITA Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    2,178
    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Exactly the same as mine, took me by surprise as well. Would you say the quality of the guitar is low? It's a bit easier for me to make a comparison but the paticular Orville I have is pretty bad.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. pAtwick

    pAtwick Junior Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Thanks for the info! I wonder what's the story behind this? The factory running out of Gibson type truss rods and using the Fender style rods instead?

    The guitar itself seems to play well enough considering that I haven't had it properly adjusted yet. The nut is worn and has to be replaced. There seems to be a problem with the finish though. It's Alpine White (and aged nicely) but there are a couple of places on the body where there are spots what look like "coffee stains" that will not come off.

    Here's a picture of the "stains" (It looks a lot worse in the pic than it is. The reddish hue, dark spot and differences in the shade of white are produced by the poor camera and shadows.)
    [​IMG]
     
  4. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    130
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Terada were into cost saving especially on the lower end guitars.

    Terada's high end guitars are as well made as any and maybe better made than many.

    The Terada lower end "Orville by Gibsons" and Orvilles have things like added on neck heels which means that they were using wood with a length that was shorter for a total neck length and adding another piece of wood to reach the total neck length, rather than just throwing the shorter piece of wood away.

    Fujigen and others did this as well, especially in the 70s and 80s.

    The Terada Orville truss rod is probably another cost cutting thing.

    The truss rod is probably just as effective but probably a bit cheaper to buy.

    How the lower end Orvilles were made by Terada would have been dictated to a large degree by what Yamano was paying Terada to make them.

    Terada made the first Orvilles starting from 1989 and who knows what Yamano was paying Terada for the Orvilles and then Fujigen come along around 1993 and take over most of the Orville making but by then Fujigen had dropped a lot of the lower end cost cutting stuff they did in the 70s and 80s and who knows what Yamano were paying Fujigen at this point in 1993, it could have been more than what they paid Terada.

    At the beginning it was just "Orville by Gibsons" being made starting in 1988 and the Orvilles were introduced in 1989 and really the focus was on pushing the "Orville by Gibsons" and not the Orvilles as can be seen in the early catalogs.

    The Orvilles became more important than the "Orville by Gibsons" over time and eventually the Orvilles took over in 1995 until the end in 1998.

    All of this doesn't mean that the Terada Orvilles are POS but they have less polish than the Terad higher end "Orville by Gibsons" but guitars are supposed to make a sound and be functional and not be visual works of art too much and even a low end Terada made Orville could rock as well as any Les Paul.

    The wood used on the Terada Orvilles is African Mahogany and Maple which is the same for all of the Terada and Fujigen made Orvilles and "Orville by Gibsons" (and a lot of other Japanese Les Pauls) and just the wood alone is a fairly large part of the Les Paul sound.

    There might be more pieces of African Mahogany and Maple used on the lower end Terada Orvilles and "Orville by Gibsons" but it's still the same African Mahogany and Maple wood type.

    With a Terada Orville, you can't be sure what you will get.

    I've seen some Terada Orvilles that are really Terada "Orville by Gibsons" and I've seen some Terada Orvilles that have been made from a fair few pieces of wood, especially the solid colour ones as they can just paint over the pieces but I've also seen stripped solid colour Terada Orvilles that don't have that many pieces of wood, go figure.
     
    3 people like this.
  5. JDB

    JDB Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,703
    Likes Received:
    5,925
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    My epi MIJ GT which was 98 i think, so around the same time as orville was a POS in comparison with other earlier mij brands.

    But my epi sg 2001 is a nice guitar. Pretty hit and miss with Orville-Epi I think. UITA would know how hit and and miss it was? Many bad ones ?
     
  6. Mr Teeny

    Mr Teeny Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,543
    Likes Received:
    2,403
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    What's the serial number?

    I've seen a few of the 'fake' L series ones with the epi truss rods, epi hardware/pups and scarf jointed necks and always white LP's. Although if UITA and doublecut have seen the Terada orvilles with fender style truss rods I wouldn't be too concerned unless there were other pointers to it being suspect.
     
  7. pAtwick

    pAtwick Junior Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Thank you doublecut for the detailed info!

    The serial is K007415 printed on a silver sticker on the back of the headstock. It seems to be legit.

    UITA: What is the serial of your Orville with a similar truss rod?
     
  8. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    130
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    K007415 is a 1990 Orville.

    Checked my K Orville SG truss rod and it's the same as in this thread.

    Don't know if all the K Orvilles have these truss rods and if some Terada "Orville by Gibsons" have these truss rods especially the lower end ones.
     
  9. UITA

    UITA Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    2,178
    Joined:
    May 19, 2008

    Seriously mine is a POS!! Don't get me wrong it's a rare occorence to have an Orville this bad, but it is.
     
  10. UITA

    UITA Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    2,178
    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    I'll have a look at the others at some point to see if they are all the same.
     
  11. pAtwick

    pAtwick Junior Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Can you be more specific, what is so bad about it? Is it just a poor individual or something more general that has to do with the design and materials?
     
  12. UITA

    UITA Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    2,178
    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    I've talked about it before and sorry I'm one of the rare type that bores himself typing the same old thing again. Paint, wood, action, sound, nut blah, blah!!
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. pAtwick

    pAtwick Junior Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    OK, I'll look it up.
     
  14. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    130
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    From memory, I think Uita has one with quite a few pieces of wood.

    I think it was a solid colour that he stripped.

    From memory,

    The first Orville LP's are Terada K Orvilles and they were introduced in 1989 selling for 65,000 Yen and then around 1991 the price goes up to 75,000 Yen and so too does the quality (things like the number of pieces of wood) of the Terada K Orville LP's seem to to go up a notch and in 1993 Fujigen took over most of the Orville LP making at 75,000 Yen.

    The difference between 65,000 Yen and 75,000 Yen is probably around $100 dollars US.

    So the first Terada K Orvilles from 1989-1991 were actually cheaper Orville LP's and then from 1991 to 1993 the Terada K Orvilles are $100 more.

    The quality probably depended on what Yamano was paying Terada.

    From 1991 to 1993, Yamano was probably paying Terada more to make the K Orvilles than from 1989 to 1991 so that's why the K Orvilles vary and it can be a a bit of a grab bag.

    It's still possible to buy a 1989 to 1991 K Orville that is not that much different to a low end Terada OBG but it's also possible to buy a 1989 to 1991 K Orville with things like multiple pieces of wood used that would have thrown out for a $100 more guitar.

    The number of pieces of wood in a guitar bothers some and doesn't bother others especially when coupled with price.

    I don't see many buyers wanting a 3 piece top LP for $1000 or whatever, but 3 pieces or 2 pieces is not going to make much difference to the sound and the actual street value is a wood piece value/visual taste thing more than anything.

    Gibson had 3 piece tops for a while in the early 70s, I think, and they are somewhat shunned, but 3 piece, 2 piece, even 4 or 5 piece, is not going to make much difference to the sound but changing the wood type from African Mahogany to say Basswood would make a difference in the sound no matter what the number of pieces are and the K Orvilles were always African Mahogany and Maple no matter how many pieces they were made from.

    No one really knows what a guitar is like for themselves unless they try it for themselves.

    Pickups can be changed and can make a big difference.
    Some pickups work great in some guitars and not so great in others.

    The K Orvilles came with PAF like pickups around 7.5k or so, and have a ceramic magnet.

    Changing the K Orville pickups to Seth Lovers or pickups with Alnico 2 or Alnico 5 or even Alnico 8 magnets or whatever, is going to make a difference.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. UITA

    UITA Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    2,178
    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Yeah 7 pieces but not an issue to me.
    Acoustically nasty, no pickups will change that.
    Plays/feels bad but a luthier can change that.
     
  16. pAtwick

    pAtwick Junior Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    According to this info the price tag transition from 65k to 75k happened already in 1990. • View topic - Orville by Gibson and Orville Original Prices from Catalogs

    So I just might be lucky if there's a difference in quality.

    The previous owner had installed new pickups, which was one of the reasons I bought the guitar. SD ‘59 model SH-1 in the neck and SD APH-1 in the bridge. I especially like the neck tone. The bridge is OK, but I'll see if it's a keeper after I get the guitar properly setup by a luthier.
     
  17. pdoodek

    pdoodek Senior Member

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    23
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    7 pieces ? They could make it from LEGO instead :D But I'm not complaining, I have 4 piece back, probably not mahogany and plywood top in my MIJ LP Custom and it's not a bad guitar - as was said, change the pickups (I have Goto P.A.F with ceramic magnet), give it some nice setup and it should be nice enough. It must have some good point - mine has very comfortable, thicker neck. Ahh BTW, have the same trussrod ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    130
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007

Share This Page