Slash: Derrig vs Max - The AFD Period

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by FLICKOFLASH, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. FLICKOFLASH

    FLICKOFLASH V.I.P. Member

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    It is also well known fact that Slash also had the MAX 1959 Replica during the same period in 1985-86 as Guns and Roses used to rehearse in a nearby complex to Max Guitars Hollywood in 1985 and Slash personally knew Max and saw him often enough but had never met Kris...ever!

    Rumor - Slash knew Kris personally - False he never met the guy!

    Only Alan Niven knew Kris and Jim Foote and saw them both in the MW shop.

    Alan Niven had been scouting for a guitar for Slash around the same time as Slash had been already been talking to MAX about his guitar problems, these two events were going on about the same time. The Welcome to the Jungle footage - their earliest video - Slash is indeed playing the MAX with black Alnico II pickups and 59 Top hat knobs show that he had the MAX in the early days, you need to know what what to look for. (see below for details)

    Slash went to Max with the problem first, then Alan went to Jim Foote. He was not geting the tone he desired with other guitars. According to MAX, he lent Slash his only guitar (a MAX 59 Sunburst - curly top replica) which at the time had real 59 PAFs and real 1959 hardware - which eventually, all MAX got back from Slash was a box of parts from that guitar and some cash, Slash used the Alnico IIs on both guitars and did not want the vintage parts at the time due to his budget restraints.

    Guitars

    It is possible that Slash got the MAX guitar early enough to have used it on AFD and there are sources that tell us that he did in fact use the MAX on some of the AFD. He did have both guitars in his possession during the 87 AFD Tour and he used both guitars during the 1st year.

    Alan Niven had the Derrig in Slash's hands sometime before Slash got the Max,it had the Alnico IIs already in them. Slash preferred these pickups and sometime later that year he pulled the PAFs out of the MAX and switched them to the Alnico IIs that he had in the Derrig already.

    Even Slash has contradicted himself (perhaps on purpose) in a number of interviews about these 2 guitars in the past, as a number of us suspect that his endorsements prevent him from talking about these 2 guitars in depth anymore. Plus the fact he can't talk about Max because he is still alive and wants to keep him out of the limelight with his endorsers.

    It is pointless to debate the case in any one direction as Slash loves both of them and they are BOTH equally significant guitars.

    [​IMG]

    GNR VIDEOS
    GUITARS SLASH USED

    WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE - IS THE 1984 MAX GUITAR - (2 DOUBLE BLACK ALNICO II PICKUPS) THE CURLY FADED FLAMETOP - 59 GOLD TOP HAT KNOBS

    SWEET CHILD OF MINE - IS A (87) PLAIN TOP GIBSON LES PAUL - DOUBLE BLACK ALNICO II - 3 PIECE PLAIN FADED TOP

    PARADISE CITY - 87 GIBSON LES PAUL PLAIN TOP - DOUBLE BLACK ALNICO II PICKUPS - 59 KNOBS

    DONT CRY - 1987 GIBSON LES PAUL PLAIN TOP - 1 ZEBRA PICKUP - 1 DOUBLE BLACK - 59 GOLD TOP HATS - THE ONE HE THREW OFF THE CLIFF IS SAID TO STILL BE AROUND SOMEWHERE...

    LIVE AND LET LIVE - 1987 GIBSON LES PAUL GOLD TOP - ALNICO II DOUBLE BLACKS - 80'S SPEC NECK PROFILE

    NOVEMBER RAIN - JOE PERRY'S 1959 TOBACCO SUNBURST 1959 LES PAUL - HE LATER GAVE BACK TO JOE FOR HIS 50TH BIRTHDAY

    YESTERDAYS - IS THE MAX GUITAR - (2 DOUBLE BLACK ALNICO II - HIGHLY FLAMED CURLY TOP ) - 1959 KNOBS

    DEAD HORSE - A VARIETY OF DOUBLE NECKS /BLACK ES- 1275 THE 87 PLAIN TOP / 87 GOLD TOP / BC RICH MOCKINGBIRD

    GARDEN OF EDEN - 87 GIBSON LES PAUL CUSTOM -SLASH SPEC CUSTOM - COMPLETE WITH GRAFFITI !

    ESTRANGED - THE RED 87 GUILD DOUBLENECK ACOUSTIC 12/ ELECTRIC 6 -CUSTOM MADE FO SLASH

    SINCE I DONT HAVE YOU - THE 1985 DERRIG - REVERSE CHEVRON FLAMETOP - ZEBRA ALNICO II - AT THIS TIME SPORTED 59 TOP HATS - NOT REFLECTOR KNOBS

    LIVE AT THE RITZ 88 CONCERT (USES BOTH REPLICAS) - THE 1985 DERRIG - FOR THE 1st FOUR SONGS - CHANGES TO THE MAX DURING MY MICHELLE - CHANGES BACK TO THE DERRIG - WTTJ - BACK TO THE MAX - NIGHT TRAIN / PARADISE CITY -BACK TO THE DERRIG - KNOCKING HD

    Slash’s Derrig 1958 Les Paul Style Replica

    Despite the photo title (1959 Les Paul Replica), Slash's "main" guitar used on the Guns and Roses recordings is a Derrig 1958 Les Paul Style Replica sporting 60's "reflector" knobs and Seymour Duncan Alnico II Zebra pickups with a reverse chevron waavy flamed maple top. The guitar was built in 1984-85 by Kris Derrig working for Jim Foote of MusicWorks - Redondo Beach, Ca. Kris was hired by Jim to build guitars for various individuals from 1983 - 1987.

    This guitar was one of the few guitars Kris made that was not a customer ordered guitar at the time. Kris was finishing up the guitar (to fund more car restoration cash for his pet project - the Red 1967 Tempest Convertible / GTO Conversion), more about this car on the biography page.

    According to Slash ( November 2005 Vintage Guitar Interview ) - Guns and Roses were in the studio in 1985 recording the Appetite For Destruction Album - according to Slash, he did not have a guitar that was cutting it for him at the time (he was using the BC Rich and was not getting the tone he desired). Alan Niven - the band’s manager came to Jim about getting Slash a guitar for the recording, Jim agreed to let Alan take the guitar to Slash to try out, eventually it would become the "main" guitar that Slash used to record the Appetite for Destruction album.

    Kris used whatever parts were available to him at the time (customers usually supplied parts for Kris) so he went to Jim to ask what kind of pickups were to be used in the guitar that would later be the infamous Slash guitar.

    Jim Foote has noted that he used Seymour Duncan (Alnico IIs ) pickups as his preference fand should not only be credited for the Alnico II pickups in Slash’s guitar, but many other guitars of celebrities and musicians alike.

    There are pictures of the guitar in an old photo album of Jim's before it went out the door to Slash, and a framed picture as well hovering around the shop somewhere. There are also many gold/platinum records on the wall presented to Jim Foote/ MusicWorks from Guns and Roses and others.

    There is also a "shrine" to Kris in the MW tool room as well, Kris's tools and templates are still very much intact that he used to make these guitars which are still there to this day.

    [​IMG]


    The very first guitar Kris ever made was built as a Cherry Sunburst 1960 "Les Paul Style" replica guitar, pictured above. (Circa 1978)

    The guitar was built approximately in mid 1978, pot codes indicate 78/08 its construction is made of a Curly Eastern Maple top with a solid one piece mahogany body and a one piece mahogany neck. The guitar has 1970's Gibson Pat. sticker pickups and original 1959 gold Top knobs.

    "Kris's very first guitar bearing his name features a flamed maple binding, abalone fret marker dots and mahogany back-plates and a Brazilian rosewood fretboard."

    Upon close inspection of this guitar, it is very clear that this was his first attempt at building a guitar, as the interior routes show several rough cavity routing errors. The guitar weighs approx. 9.5 lbs, has a slim taper 1960’s style neck and the dimensions are not exact to original specifications. All the same its a great early example of his work.

    The guitar has been well preserved over the years with a fair amount of finish checking and some minor player wear. The exact provenance after it left Kris’s possession is unknown on this particular guitar.

    During this time from 1978 - 1983 in Atlanta, it is believed that Kris built approximately 10-12 replica "Les Paul Style" guitars, most of them bearing another well known logo. The guitar pictured above is the only one known in existence to bear his surname.

    "A very rare" example of a Derrig "Les Paul Style" guitar bearing his name" as all other guitars had another well known logo.

    [​IMG]

    DERRIG 1958 LES PAUL REPLICA - #1 OF 3 - POSSIBLY ONE THE LAST MADE
    The 1958 Derrig Replica pictured below was recently acquired by MCi Music as a collection piece. It was made by Kris at Music Works in the fall and winter of 1985-86. It was the second of 3 guitars purchased by it's original owner from Kris. The guitar was probably finished in December of 1985 of January 1986.

    Materials for the guitar were purchased all from local sources in Southern California. Kris aquired all of the wood through Jim Foote and the serial number corresponds to the day the wood was purchased for the top.

    Kris chose to use Seymour Duncan pickups in the replica. There is a 59 in the neck and an Alinco II in the brige position. The controls are from Dimarzio and the date codes also correspond to late 1985. The bridge is a nashville style with orig, tune-o-matic mounting studs. Kris installed this bridge at the owners request. The tuners are black Kluson style tuners. At the time the guitar was built they were one of the better alternatives to using old tuners that could hold tune well.

    At first glance the guitar is very striking bearing an almost uncanny resembalance to some of Kris's other work he completed in the mid 80's working for Jim Foote. The guitar is well balanced in both sound and feel and weighs approx 9.0 lbs.

    DERRIG 1958 LES PAUL REPLICA - #1 OF 3 - POSSIBLY ONE THE LAST MADE
    The 1958 Derrig Replica pictured below was recently acquired by MCi Music as a collection piece. It was made by Kris at Music Works in the fall and winter of 1985-86. It was the second of 3 guitars purchased by it's original owner from Kris. The guitar was probably finished in December of 1985 of January 1986.




    [​IMG]
     
  2. FrankiePRS

    FrankiePRS V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

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    Interesting reading. Thanks!
     
  3. Big Mike

    Big Mike V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

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    I've had some discussions with an associate of foot's about the Derrig's. Apparently they were really something special.
     
  4. Darkburst

    Darkburst Senior Member

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    Cool post!
     
  5. Hackubus

    Hackubus Senior Member

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    Great read! Thanks a bunch.
     
  6. Southbay Ampworks

    Southbay Ampworks Senior Member

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    Dang, you quoted me a lot in this story, Flick.
     
  7. FLICKOFLASH

    FLICKOFLASH V.I.P. Member

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  8. Lousyatit

    Lousyatit Senior Member

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    I have a friend that knew Kris when he(Kris) was living in Atlanta. He had two of Kris's guitars at different times. The one that I played was a little off. It could not have passed for the real thing.
     
  9. Southbay Ampworks

    Southbay Ampworks Senior Member

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    Ok, then they quoted me a bunch. One of my best friends is Jim Foote of MusicWorks, where Kris did most of his luthiery work. I also know Alan Niven,and I've seen the picture book of guitars Foote still has that shows several of Kris's guitar creations and pics of the guitar that Slash used.

    Contrary to many stories on the net and those who don't know the real players first hand, Max did not, nor did he ever have a burst ready for Slash to play in time for AFD. Since replicas are a "cease & desist" order type thing for Gibson's legal team, they were always clouded in mystery, and no names of the makers of these replicas were given out. The same still applies in most cases, by the way.

    Max/Peter Barret might have made Slash a guitar like this later on but it wasn't ready in time for AFD, that's for certain. Slash has purposely referred to "the guy in Redondo Beach" who made the guitar he used on that album. Max lived in Hollywood. Music Works used to be in Redondo Beach, on Artesia Blvd. Now it's in Lawndale, on Artesia Blvd. So to end that confusion, I asked Foote & Niven about this five years ago, to straighten out this whole mess.

    As Foote and Niven remember it, Slash had a guitar that wasn't working out. Slash asked Niven to find him a guitar that would. He knew Foote, who had Derrig living outside his shop in an RV, working on his muscle car to restore. He built these guitars to fund that project, period. Niven approached Foote, who got Derrig involved who had just finished the LP replica. It didn't have any pickups. Derrig came in and asked Foote what he had, Foote said these are popular and I recommend them. That's how it got the Alnico Pro II Seymour Duncan pickups in the guitar.

    Slash tried it, liked it, Niven bought it for Slash. It was used on the album, Max showed up later.
     
  10. Darkburst

    Darkburst Senior Member

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    Here's another pic of the Max:
    [​IMG]

    Close Up:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. PoorMan

    PoorMan Senior Member

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    I have a friend who is pretty tight with Adam Day (Slash's tech). I don't have a timeline but apparently Slash uses a Korina V for a vast majority of his leads.
     
  12. zeppelin13

    zeppelin13 Member

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    :slash: nice i love slash hes a kick ass guitarist
     
  13. Darkburst

    Darkburst Senior Member

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    More Derrig shots:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Southbay Ampworks

    Southbay Ampworks Senior Member

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    That's the Derrig guitar in the book of pics Jim Foote has at MusicWorks in Lawndale, CA. which were taken after it was made. I'm going there later today, anyone want me to take pics of the pics in the book? Thanks Brian!
     
  15. Darkburst

    Darkburst Senior Member

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    I'd love more pics Jim!
     
  16. Southbay Ampworks

    Southbay Ampworks Senior Member

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    Woke up with a head cold yesterday, so I didn't go to MusicWorks, but I'll probably go this week. I'll see what I can get for ya.
     
  17. max luthier

    max luthier V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

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    i knew Slash before GnR got signed .. i knew most of the LA bands and hung out with them at the clubs ..

    GnR used to rehearse in some garage/rehearsal rooms behind my shop in LA .. Slash did not have ANY les pauls when he came to me in person and asked if i had one he could try .. the only one i had was my personal one which i let him take for the recording sessions .. it had real PAF's which he used for at least two weeks .. he asked if he could buy the guitar without the PAF's and vintage parts and i sold it to him ..

    it's as simple as that ..

    i have to say that it really irks me when people try to sound so knowledgeable and authoritative about things they know nothing of .. you weren't there, i was .. end of story .. i won't be responding to any further comments.
     
  18. Southbay Ampworks

    Southbay Ampworks Senior Member

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    Max Luthier...Well, my guess is that if you are the real Max aka Peter Baranet, then you were drinking a lot then, too, cuz you're wrong and you know it. Slash has said "the guy in Redondo Beach" in interviews when asked about who built the Les Paul used on the AFD sessions and the Les Paul used was the Derrig, according to Alan Niven, their manager. You weren't ever building guitars in Redondo Beach by your own admission, so that pretty much takes you out of it right there. And if you don't know that Alan Niven was GnR's manager, that's kinda suspect, dont you think?

    Long story short, and from Alan Niven & Jim Foote, who I talked to directly about this, and in some detail for 1/2 hour on this subject only (sober, 5 years ago), you weren't around with any guitars in time for AFD. Afterwards you showed up, yes, but not at the time AFD was recorded. Alan Niven doesn't know who you are, by the way. I would think he might, and you might know him if "you were there".

    You have taken credit for the Derrig replica guitar and the tone of it on AFD for years, and I think it sucks. So you'll excuse me if I just smile and shake my head at you, cuz if Slash said it was "the guy in Redondo Beach" and Alan Niven says it was made by Kris Derrig , who worked out of Redondo Beach, that pretty much leaves you out of it...unless you have a separate identity and died back in the late 80's.

    Frankly, I think you ought to be ashamed of yourself. And no, I haven't been drinking...and I wouldn't post on such a subject unless I had done my research with the folks involved. As a matter of fact, I'm going to MusicWorks this week to take photos of the Derrig Les Paul in question that are in Jim's scrapbook. I believe this picture here is the article referencing Alan Niven, the guitar, and Slash saying Alan bought it and brought it to him to use for AFD.

    [​IMG]

    Slash Guitar Page - Slash's 1959 Les Paul Replica
     
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  19. FLICKOFLASH

    FLICKOFLASH V.I.P. Member

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    why can't both stories be true I recall the Max story even back in the 80's & the Derrig much later on. I recall Slash being so down & out most of his gear was in pawn & he had to barrow stuff to record. Maybe Max you can have Slash respond directly
     
  20. BCRGreg

    BCRGreg V.I.P. Member

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    If this IS Max, my money's on him.

    I wasn't out in L.A. back then, but when I first met Slash in 1987 at Hammerjack's, he had two Les Pauls with him...the 87 and the Derrig. I played both, and the Derrig had a damn fine spank to it. He mentioned Max to me after looking around and leaning in (like we all have!), and told me that Max made the best Les Pauls and he had played Max's personal one.

    No dog in this hunt for me, just supporting Mr. Baranet. He's good folks.
     

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