RS Guitarworks [merged]

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by mjarema414, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Ok I have my vintage premium long shaft kit and its going in my Gibson standard faded les paul but...

    I dont have a clue what to do with all the ground wires from the switch and the one coming from the jack if I lose the Gibson metal plate. See here...

    [​IMG]

    I mean where do they go if i dont use the metal plate? it would be a whole lot easier just leaving it in there and just soldering in the pickups and switch to the lugs, and the tail piece/wire to pots. Would I lose a whole lot of tone?

    Could someone explain this to me plaease and maybes post a pic of how it could be done, im hopeless.
     
  2. FF_Pedals

    FF_Pedals Senior Member

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    If you get a pre-wired kit, the backs of all the pots are connected together. You connect the wire that comes from the bridge tailpiece (usually bare wire coming out alone from the wood) to the back of the closest pot.

    The pickup shields/braids get soldered to the back of the closest pot, ie. bridge pickup shield to bridge volume pot, same for neck.

    The part that I think you're confused by is the output jack, toggle switch wires. When I took out my ground plate, I used a new output jack so I wouldn't have to worry about disconnecting the one from the ground plate. You can buy a new jack for like $2. You can pick up a pre-wired toggle switch to make things easier. There is a wire from each pickup's volume pot to the toggle switch and then a wire from the toggle switch to the output jack. At the pickup volume pot side, the ground shield is connected to the back of the pot. At the switch, the two pickup wires and output wire ground shields are all connected together and to the body of the switch. Then at the output jack, there are two lugs, one for the ground shield and one for the signal.

    [​IMG]

    In that picture, the two sets of pots (neck and bridge) aren't connected by a ground wire at the pots. The ground connection is at the toggle switch. It's just easier to sell a pre-wired kit with all four connected. The black wire running down the middle has a ground shield and signal wire inside. It's the wire from the toggle to the output.
     
  3. Horse

    Horse Senior Member

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    The pic above shows wiring so very much simpler and neater than my Epiphone mess, it beggers belief.....
     
  4. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    FF pedals thank you very much for that info, its helped a lot. It is indeed the toggle switch and jack im confused by and not the pickups and the rest.

    So that picture there shows a thick black wire coming from your jack and that goes through the routing and is conected to the pickup selector switch? is that the way it came? I might have to find a switch like this. My vintage kit has a wire from pot to pot, is this to ground them all? looks like this....

    [​IMG]

    So if i took out the plate and used the existing switch id need to use the black / yellow and green wires? for ground or just the thin and thick black? which i asume is from switch to jack?

    Also if i remove the grounding plate, would i have to use a short shaft kit as the one ive got is long shaft? is the metal plate so bad??

    Sorry for all the questions.
     
  5. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    If you pull the plate, you'll have to make the 'circuit' that goes to the guitar output jack. The guitar's bridge gound wire will connect to the nearest pot cover (neck volume)...no more gounding is necessary.

    **Note** The pic posted by Jimbo looks like a left-handed guitar...everything will be reversed for a right hander...it might be worth 'flipping' the pic for a reference, even though the lettering will be backwards. :D

    --The yellow and green wire go together, and will connect to the jack's ground.

    --The black wire (not labeled in the above pic, but it can be seen going over the treble volume pot and connecting to the post in the middle of the grounding plate) is the hot wire, and will connect to the hot wire for the jack.

    --The red and white wires go to exactly the same place in your new set of pots.

    I did this operation on my '76 LP Custom (pulled the plate, but left the pots and original stuff on it, so I can reverse it someday if I need to go back to all-original), and it took a little bit of thinking and preparation before getting it done. (Note--I actually made a mistake or two with the jack wiring, but through trial and error got it working correctly. :D)

    I recommend using some shrink-tubing or electrical tape to seal off the soldered connections (jack wiring), otherwise you'll ground out the circuit...lots of things for it to touch. :D

    My '76 is put away under the bed at the moment. but I'll try and get a pic up later.

    The other choice is to pull the switch wiring and replace it with braided wire, old-school style. You can get that wire from RS if you choose to do this, but it's not necessary.

    To answer your other question...you could leave the plate in, but some experts (Billy included) say that the capacitance it creates sucks some tone out of your guitar. I'm not an expert by any means, but I like the idea of having the same wiring as the original Les Paul had (or at least very close). That's just my opinion, of course. Billy's seen the inside of more guitars than I could imagine (including a LOT of famous dudes guitars), so I'll take his word for it.

    Good luck--I'll try to get some pics of mine of later.

    Cheers!

    BB

    PS--If I've misspoken somewhere, please DO correct me!

    PPS--If you're modding an Epiphone, I'd consider swapping all of the wires out. The Epis have this wire that looks about as thin as a human hair, and it can be troublesome to deal with. To get the most out of your instrument I myself would pull everything (wires, switch, and jack) and get a complete rewire kit. It makes for a bigger project, but the experience alone will make you a better tech, and in my opinion your guitar will respond much better. Billy is always available to provide over-the-phone counseling (LOL) should you need it (weekdays, office hours only...he does have a family, after all!). The service RS provides is outstanding in this regard. :D
     
  6. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Massive massive thanks b-squared mate. my guitar is a Gibson standard faded, but it looks like now i'll have to find a pre wired kit here in the uk for the pickup switch. Cos i waited ages for my rs kit, im sure somewhere will sell em? anyone in the uk know? how bout here...

    Axesrus - Guitar Switches and more

    Im just eager to start but i cant if i wanna lose the plate.
     
  7. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    I'm sure one of our many UK members can help you out with an answer...
     
  8. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Thank you very very much.
     
  9. FF_Pedals

    FF_Pedals Senior Member

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    Your RS pots should have two nuts on them that you can use to set the height. I find this to be the hardest part for installing the electronics. You've gotta set the inside nut at the right height so that when you tighten the outer nut down on the top, the knob sits at the right height. Maybe set this before you bother wiring up the rest and put a dab of locktite or a little piece of tape under the inside nut or mark the position with a sharpie. I'm sure Jonesy could wire up a switch for you: ToneMojo.com Got your Tone-Mojo Working? . I've sent things from Canada to the UK and it only takes like 5 or 6 days.
     
  10. hillbilly

    hillbilly V.I.P. Member

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    Jimbo, I would advise just using your existing switch. Just like b-squared said, red & white wires go to the Volume pots, green & bare are soldered to the back of a pot to ground, and the black wire goes to the '+' of the jack. You also need to run a short wire from the '-' of the jack to the back of any pot. Solder in your tailpiece ground to the back of the Neck Volume, and you are done.

    The most difficult thing you will have to do, as 'FF' said, is getting your pot heights set correctly. I set them with a few threads above the top of the guitar, so my knobs sit almost flush with the top.
     
  11. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Fantastic Hillbilly thats just what I will do thank you very much. I'll let you know how I go.
     
  12. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Ive started and so far so good. Question though.. how do i know whats + and - on the jack?

    Also does the red and white wires go on the same lug as the caps? the middle one? or the one with the pickups?
     
  13. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Ive finished but im just getting nothing through the amp, just a horrible buzz/humm. Im not sure ive done the jack properly?
     
  14. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    Fkin Awesome it works!!! wow.. i love the way i can roll back the bridge volume and get clean then up and get lots of dirt!

    The only thing is Ive wired up the pickups wrong.. the bridge is in the Rythym position and the neck is in the Treble...DOHHH!! will i have to resolde or can i just turn the switch around??

    I cant beive ive done it.. and its so quiet! hardly any buzz through the amp, unlike before. Big Thankx.
     
  15. FF_Pedals

    FF_Pedals Senior Member

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    Great work!

    If you have enough wire you can turn the switch around.
     
  16. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    thank you so much FF, and billy and all you guys that helped. You should see the smile on my face! and if i ever get my jaw of the ground i'll be amazed. The sound and tone is stunning.... Im telling you I cant believe how I can just twiddle the volume on a dirty sound and get a lovely clean, then up and its booom!

    Wow.. next i will do my classic antique! I dont think I will bother getting that R8 now.. i think it cant be any better than this. Im very happy.
     
  17. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    And i will never be afraid to work inside my guitar again!! i was afraid to put in a classic 57!! unreal.
     
  18. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    Congrats, man! :D
     
  19. Jimbo

    Jimbo Senior Member

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    thanx B squared.. im over the bastard moon!!
     
  20. hillbilly

    hillbilly V.I.P. Member

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    Jimbo, join the long line of satisfied guitarists (and bassists)! :naughty: :cool: :dude: :applause: :cheers: :thumb: :h5:

    RE: the switch/pickup wiring...remember, RED goes to the middle lug of the Bridge Volume control, and WHITE goes to the middle lug of the Neck Volume control.
     

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