Rocksmith post release thread!

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by a Mad Cow, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. b3john

    b3john Senior Member

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    Splatt, let me turn your question on it's head.

    Part of learning to ride a bike is riding the bike. Same thing with playing guitar; only time playing the guitar is ever going to make someone a guitarist.

    I think back as a kid, when two guitarists would have to sit down and show one another how this riff was played or that lead was played. Later, TAB came along and really took off in terms of a tool to show someone else how to play guitar parts without having to be in the same room at the same time. Rocksmith is really nothing more than a game that can show you how to play songs in its own variation of TAB and, better yet, provide feedback in terms of whether you played the right notes at the right time.

    Yeah, you'll still have to learn theory, and hopefully how to read music, on your own. But this will get someone started and, if they stay interested, the rest came come later. The most important thing is to get the next generation playing guitar music.
     
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  2. rem22

    rem22 Senior Member

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    I really learned things faster with rocksmith.
    Chords, for example. It was a pain in the ass to look at an internet site and try to reproduce it.
    With rockmith, I learned in a week the most common chords.

    Rocksmith does not make you a guitarist, and guitar heroes like Slash, Satriani, Vai, ou you Splatter I don't know, but it learns you to play some songs you like. It learns you chords, it makes you play the guitar more than you'd think your would.

    I think it is a very good tool to drive you on your way to playing guitar. Like reading tabs in magazines, following youtube videos, taking lessons from a teacher. At least for a beginner.

    another thing, rocksmith cost me 45€ and I spent maybe 30 hours on it. I don'y have much time (2 babies); sometime I play between 9:30pm and 10pm because I have a spot. No rocksmith would mean, just reading tabs and playing. I do it also.
    I think a lot of guitarist don't like rocksmith because they see it as a job destructor for guitar teacher, or maybe because they re jealous people do not spent years to learn a song the hard way, like they did.
     
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  3. Barcham

    Barcham Elitist Club Member

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    If you want to be a songwriter, and not everyone does, nothing will help you unless you have that innate talent to begin with. Not every guitarist can write songs, and even fewer of them can write good songs. There's nothing wrong with being a solid musician and playing songs written by others.
     
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  4. a Mad Cow

    a Mad Cow Senior Member

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    So now that it's sunk in I'm getting really amped about 2014 with the new difficulty selections.

    I'm super amped and I know my guitar playing is going to go to the next level because I'm begging to tackle some of the harder stuff like Pantera. Right now, like everything else, it's taking forever to unlock the songs. This is always the case with the harder stuff it seems.

    I think I'm going to wait till it's released to continue playing. I've been dealing with this frustration long enough but its so good knowing my Rocksmith 2014 will be jam packed with 130 songs, half of which I've got 100%, and I'll finally be able to select any difficulty on all of them.

    They better have online multiplayer in the next version. Rcole, if they do, your ass better be ready to play with me!
     
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  5. splatter

    splatter Senior Member

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    You have a good point and I guess anything that gets or keeps someone playing is a good thing to a point .
    The point I was trying to make is that if I had taken the countless hours I spent learning covers( back in my day there was no tab , it was a cassett player and you couldn't even slow it down ) and spent them on learning scales licks and theory I would be alot better gutiar player now . My playing vastly improved ( but its still nothing to write home about) when i stared spending more time on scales and licks and was put into a situation where I had to improvise alot . So IMHO being able to play covers note for note doesn't make someone a good guitar player . It makes them a good cover musician . Again not trying to bash the game or its players . I actually own the game ,I have never played it though. I bought it for my son in hopes that it would get him interested in guitar .
    It didn't , he wants to be a drummer :facepalm:
     
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  6. a Mad Cow

    a Mad Cow Senior Member

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    If you can play some of the harder content on Rocksmith 100% then you're most likely a better guitarist than someone who mostly improvises over backing tracks.

    Those guys usually can only play one genre well, and once you hear em play once they sound the same every time there after.

    Personally, I have 30+ songs mastered on Rocksmith of all different genres, and that playing experience crosses over into everything I play now.
     
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  7. GNR4EVR

    GNR4EVR Epi Verification Expert V.I.P. Member

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    I get a lot out of it. I got frustrated a lot with tabs and my old damn fingers and fuzzy memory dont allow for much improv, so this game has been great for getting my fingers moving and making it fun at the same time. As far as theory- I really hope in the not too distant future that this can be turned into a learning tool, they are really missing out on something great if they dont.
     
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  8. splatter

    splatter Senior Member

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    every genres ? so you go from death metal to chickin pickin and jazz ?
    my question for you is waht else do you play besides whats on RS ?
     
  9. a Mad Cow

    a Mad Cow Senior Member

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    To answer your first question, yes, I play metal, country, blues, rock, and a wee bit of jazz on Rocksmith. I play them the same way the original artist played them on the recording.

    Off Rocksmith, I can play any basic song you pretty much hear on the radio after a night with the tabs. I think the last one I learned was Collective Soul - Shine. Before that I learned Counting Crows Mr Jones in like, 2 hours.
     
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  10. splatter

    splatter Senior Member

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    Sounds like its working for you then .
    I personally hate country and death metal and I'm not wild about jazz either . I don't however just jam to backing tracks . lately I have been having to learn covers for a band we just formed . So far I've been doing it the by ear ,I did it this way for so long that I'm pretty good at learning this way . I figure it would take me longer to learn how to use rock smith than its worth . I could be wrong though and if I get stuck on something I might have to see if its in the game . But would I have to build up to a certain level to learn the more "difficult " songs or could I just pick what I wanted to play ?
     
  11. rem22

    rem22 Senior Member

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    In the new edition (2014) it seems you can select any song in the playlist and try it.
    With the first edition, well, I think I do that when I select "songs" I can select any of the song in the list, and then I play it. But some people say we can"t.

    rocksmith is really great, I think everyone who wants to judge it should try it a few days before speaking. It's like guitars or amps, how could I seriously think my guitar is better than yours if I don't play yours ?
    A lot of (generally old) guitarists speak ill of rocksmith, mostly because they're jealous they did not have such a nice thing in the past :p and the funnier part about it, they never even tried it.
     
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  12. Royal Crimson

    Royal Crimson Senior Member

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    Whatever you play, proper or not comes out at the same volume. Improvise to your hearts content.
     
  13. SpawnedX

    SpawnedX Senior Member

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    So, I want to approach this topic as a beginner. I want to address the nay-sayers points, based on my own actual experience, which it seems a lot of the nay-sayers do not have. Sadly, this makes their arguments all but moot, but I hope this will clarify to the more open-minded people that the game will teach you guitar and even a small amount of theory, and that the bad habits are picked up only by the users inability to research the thousands of free online resources to ensure they are doing things proper.

    I have tried to really learn the guitar several times. The last time I was really sure I was in to it, even bought the guitar of my dreams (which is why I have an account here) to do it with. My own money of course, so only losses are attributed to my own personal wealth or lack thereof. I eventually sold my 2010 Gibson Les Paul Studio (black with gold hardware, how I miss thee) and swore off the guitar as something I could not learn.

    But I have the desire to learn, I want to learn, which is in direct contradiction to the nay-sayers argument that people who use a game to learn and stay interested do not have the desire. I do have the desire, the game is not what made me want to learn the guitar, playing the guitar is what made me want to learn the guitar. The game just gave me an alternative method of doing so, and it takes the monotony out of the beginning, which makes it a lot easier for me to come home form a grueling 11 hour shift fixing cars, and pick up a guitar and do menial practice sessions. Because, honestly? I would have no desire to do something that is mind-numbing like playing the same chord over and over again, after a long day of hard work, when sitting on my a-- in front of the TV with a beer is the other option.

    So, I went out and bought an Epiphone Les Paul Standard in Cardinal Red for 399.00 and a copy of this game for 79.99 to plug into my already existing PS3. I was very skeptical of how a game could make learning the guitar (and yes I am learning the guitar) easier and more enjoyable. Because despite what the nay sayers say, we are learning the guitar not for the "enjoyment" of learning it, but the enjoyment of being able to play songs we like whether it be for ourselves, small groups, local venues or to eventually start a band with original workings of our own. So if you picked up the car for the "pleasure" of Hot Cross Buns...why the hell did you ever progress past that?

    I still recall my first day with 2014 edition (when it released). I plugged in and immediately I had to tune my guitar, which was an easy process, sorry my ears are not yet capable of tuning without a tuner. Then I had no idea what to do, I selected that I was a true beginner. I started Machinehead by Bush because I like the song and it threw me into it at 5% difficulty, I played a few notes and managed to get 79% accuracy and a little bump up in difficulty that I seriously could not handle.

    From there I decided to try the suggested learn this riff mode of the song. I tried it, got up to 35% difficulty at 100% speed and realized, I am not ready for this, I need to work on my fundamentals and basics.

    But the nay-sayers claim this game does not teach these things, only to play a few songs and maybe keep you interested.

    Well that is because the nay-sayer has absolutely no clue what the heck they are talking about, but what can you expect from someone who is an expert on something they never touched?

    I went into the lessons menu. I had to watch all the pre-requisite videos. Including how to put a strap on my guitar. Then I had to watch how to hold my guitar while standing up. It showed me that the most ideal way is to have it positioned so the body of your guitar lays against your abdomen. Not your crotch, not your knees, not your chest. Well okay, I know this. Then I watched how to hold your guitar while sitting down, explaining to me why I want the relief sitting on my thigh, so my leg is supporting the guitar and not my arms. Yeah, I know that too. Lame. Well of course it is lame to me, I tried this before, I retained some knowledge, but for someone who has done nothing with a guitar, this is as down to the basics as you can start.

    Okay, finally past that crap. Now another lesson, how to hold your pick. Oh come on...I know this too, but a true beginner wouldn't. It showed me the proper position between the clasped fingers and thumb to hold the pick, to hold it perfectly level with the strings and stressed to keep my hand relaxed as to not tire out quickly or damage any muscles in the long run. It reminded me that I do not need to pluck the string very hard, let the amp do it's job.

    Now on to navigating the fret board. This is where I learned my first thing. It explained to me the numbering of frets and how to recognize them by the inlays and neck dots. Yeah, I know this. It even came with some numbered stickers I could put on my neck to help me recognize frets faster. I decided against that, as I felt that this would build up a reliance on these stickers rather than forcing myself to memorize what each dot meant. Then it told me something none of my previous teachers or books bothered to tell me. It told me that the 12th fret had double dots, because the 12 steps represent one octave. So there are two octaves on your neck and that if you paid attention the patterns before and after the 12th fret are identical. This instantly helped my mind identify frets faster. Why did none of my teachers or the other books bother to mention this?

    I decided to keep moving along with the lessons and started Shifting 101. This was just a basic navigating the fret board lesson with a little tune for practice. It only revolved around the low E string in the A440 tune. It started off by showing me a note to play and then had me play it. Then had me play another. Then it went into shifting. While it did not specifically tell me to use multiple fingers, or how to position my fingers, I watched the real female in the tutorial and saw how she did it and decided to mimic that. Then we started a little tune, and when I got that mastered it upped the amount of notes, difficulty and tempo a bit. Eventually I got to the final practice tune and resolved to not put the guitar down until I could do it flawlessly. The moment I messed up, or found myself not using the fingers I should, I just stopped and restarted. By the end of my first and only hour in the game that night, I could play the tune using the correct corresponding fingers and proper position shifting, without looking at the guitar at all and I even had it memorized, so I could play it through my amp if I needed. This includes not only using my pinky, but to position my pinky and use it as the first finger in the 12 11 10 9 portion of the song as the quickest and most efficient way to be set up for the transitions to 3 4 5 or 7 8 9.

    Did I mention the game also made sure to tell me to start off the bat using alternating up and down strums as a good habit to start? Yeah, if I realized I didn't do that, I also restarted until I had it 100% correct.

    But the game doesn't teach you proper technique or anything of theory...sorry I forgot about that nay-sayers.

    Going on with my venture into this, I can notice progression at a much faster pace using Rocksmith, than I did through the traditional methods. Unlike the assertions of the nay-sayers, the Chord training videos do show me proper finger position and use, and if they didn't well Google is free.

    The games take basic practices that you all did when you first started learning, but just add a small level of entertainment to them, to make them not so much a chore, so you are having fun while practicing, which leads to doing it more, and then doing it more at once, which I cannot find anything negative in that. Games include shooting a bandit who is advancing towards the saloon by strumming the correct string he is standing on. This helps you navigate strings faster, knowing their placement, which in turn increases your technique. Another game has me having play the corresponding fret and string to shoot a duck to score points. There are times when the duck is rainbow colored, when you shoot him, it starts changing the string you need to strum at random. This builds up fret board navigation, string identifying and finger dexterity. There are also games that revolve around you playing scales to progress. I know for a fact that there are some of you nay-sayers who have never bothered with scales. There is also a game that calls out chords for you to play. A game that requires you slide from one pre-determined fret to another. It adds obstacles that force you do do it quicker and quicker. How about a hammer on or pull of game? Yep. A sustain game? Yep.

    So what is it about this game that has nay-sayers all up in arms? I have no idea, but just about every argument I have read, I can counter with specific examples to the contrary.

    You can just as easily get teachers who show you bad technique as you can pick up from this game. If you practice due diligence you will do outside research to help bring yourself in line. The thing is, the people willing to do the outside research will always be the ones who succeed, the other lazier types will fail or be bad under a teacher and will fail or be bad under this game. That is life.

    For once, I actually feel like I can do this.

    --- Edit ---

    Couple of other silly arguments against Rocksmith that I have heard.

    The tabs are backwards displayed on the top rather than the bottom and this will hurt new guitarist.

    Bull. First of all, you can flip them if it matters that much. Secondly, sheet music is nothing like tabs at all, it is completely different, but yet I can read both. This is just a fear of being outside of your comfort zone. Being outside of your comfort zone is precisely how you learn to progress.

    You will never memorize a song, you cannot truly be learning to play if you need the game scrolling the notes in front of you in order to do what you learned.

    More bull. First of all, memorizing the song is a personal thing, if you want to, you will, if you don't you will not, game or tabs or sheet music, irrelevant. But the game has mastery mode, which is the full version of the song, but it takes chunks out of sections that you still need to play, but it does not display them to you, and it varies. So you either have the song memorized to fill in the random gap or you do not master the song.
     

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