Rewiring rookie help

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by uldericom, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    I already sent a post about ground misconceptions mentioning this subject: I have 3 LPs, a custom. a standard and a traditional, and they all have (at my home, at least) the same annoying buzz, acceptable for normal playing, but really unacceptable in a PC recording session (I use an ampli headphones connection). A Paul Reed Smith guitar I also owe, is, in same conditions, absolutely silent. It's really a petty I can't use my custom LP, I really love it. I tried every way to find buzz origin without success.
    So my last option is to try rewiring and I would like to follow Mr. Caldwell suggestions, as per the following diag

    lp_wiring_1.jpg

    Anyway, as you can understand, being my not excellent soldering skills and my relatively low knowledge of the Gibson diagrams, (you can also add my not perfect english language knowledge), to modify a $ 2000 guitar is not a decision to be taken lightly.
    Opening my LP case, I founded an uncommon wiring, at least to me

    DSCF1931a.jpg

    with that strange "bridge"

    DSCF1934a.jpg

    Any idea about its configuration? It doesn't seems a standard wire for two humbuckers, to indipendent vol and tones. The guitar was bought new and never modified.
    I would like to follow slavishly the above pattern, but it seems I have to change everything of the actual wiring, pots included, desoldering the existing ones doesn't seem a good idea.

    Suggestions are well accepted, and thanks in advance :thumb:
     
  2. Lungo

    Lungo Senior Member

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    That part looks like the junction that's usually mounted on the metal grounding plate.

    Like this:


    [​IMG]



    It appears to me that someone removed the metal plate and soldered that part to the control pot. I have no idea why they would do that.
     
  3. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    Gibson's guys are creative people, isn't it?
     
  4. Lungo

    Lungo Senior Member

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    I don't think that guitar would come from Gibson like that. It's been modified before you bought it.
     
  5. FFXIhealer

    FFXIhealer Senior Member

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    I agree with this. Look at all that half-burnt solder! Someone f***ed with your guitar before you bought it, mate. I'd have the entire thing redone, honestly. New pots, new wires. Hell, you could do '50s wiring while you're at it.
     
  6. deadringer

    deadringer Senior Member

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    Yeah I've never seen that output bridge in there without being connected to the grounding plate. Not sure why someone would do that. Here's some pics from Jonesy if you decide to rewire it 50's style.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Lungo

    Lungo Senior Member

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    I noticed the burned solder too. Another thing I noticed is the paint inside the cavity, does Gibson do that to any of their guitars?
     
  8. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    Thank you very much for your replies.
    It seems very strange that somebody modifiy the guitar, it was new and with original warranty, I can't understand the reason why; the metal plate is not present, but there is the the pot ground wiring and seems well done....
    Anyway, I've decided to procede in rewiring everything; I've just post a reply in the thread " More Grounding Misconceptions" to discuss about the diagram shown above, form Mr, Caldwell, I find it really good from a "good technic" point of view, the only thing is the following

    Not really clear for me, and Mr Caldwell seems to be away.
    Could anyone from the above enthusiastic people help a rookie like me?
    Does Mr Caldwell means that in case of pick up braided wires (they are always braided...to me..:shock:.....) the diagram becomes as follows?

    lp_wiring_2.jpg

    And did anyone realize a wiring following the above specs? Surely good results, but can be shared related pics and infos?

    Thanks a million:D
     
  9. deadringer

    deadringer Senior Member

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    Black paint in the cavity is normal for ebony les paul customs.

    Guitar pickups are wired two different ways basically. Some have braided two conductor wires. Like what you're familiar with. The inner wire is the hot/positive wire and the outer silver braided wire is the ground/negative. Pickups can also have 4 conductor wires. This is for coil splitting and many other wiring options, but they can be used like any other pickup. They just can give you more wiring options if you want. Their color coding varies by manufacturer. See below:

    [​IMG]

    He is telling you that if your current pickups have braided 2 conductor wire to solder the outer part of the wire to the back of the volume pots to ground the pickups. This is actually the way they are soldered in the guitar currently, so just match that when you rewire it.

    If your pickups had the 4 conductor wiring, like shown in the diagram, you would connect the bare silver wire and whatever color wire is the ground, which would be black on Gibson pickups, together and solder them to the back of the pot casing.

    Look at the image below. See how the green arrow tell you to solder the silver outer wire to the back of the pot? That is what Caldwell is talking about.

    [​IMG]

    This is the same way it is done in your Les Paul currently. Outer braids soldered to the back of the pots.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    This means, following the diagram (please correct me if I'm wrong): pickup positive on lug 1 of bridge Vpot, negative (its brided shield) on same pot case, wire from case to lug 3: same for other pickup neck and related pot, without case wire to its lug 3.
    What I can't understand is why to omit ground connection between the two Vpots.

    A correct diagram would be very, very appreciated......:applause:

    ...You give an hand and an entire arm is asked....LOL

    Thanks a lot:)
     
  11. deadringer

    deadringer Senior Member

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    Go here and there are TONS of diagrams. All the pots get ground together, so just solder a wire from one to the other. There is no need to solder the volume pots together because they are already in the loop when you solder from neck volume to neck tone, then from bridge tone to bridge volume.

    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/558-wiring-library.html
     
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  12. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar V.I.P. Member

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    Wiring diagram with 4 conductor switch wiring:

    [​IMG]

    Wiring diagram with single conductor switch wiring:

    [​IMG]

    Both 50's wiring...
     
  13. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    Thanks a lot deadringer, really appreciated support :thumb:
    But more or less it seems that we are saying the same thing: I agree with you, no vol. pots connection is needed if a wire is solded from one to the other, but Mr Caldwell diagram seems not mention such a grounding chain, bringing all grounds (separately from negatives) to lug 3 of bridge volume pot, and from here to the main ground of jack input. His main statement is this, to keep grounds separates from negatives in order to avoid ground loops (did you reed his post " More Grounding Misconceptions" ?).

    Probably (surely....) I didn't understand it well...........:confused:

    Anyway, I will follow your suggestion and I'll study more examples. Finally I will try to summarize in a diagram for your approval (if you can and have time)
    Thanks a million
     
  14. FFXIhealer

    FFXIhealer Senior Member

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    Has anyone actually looked at the difference between Modern Wiring and '50's Wiring?

    [​IMG]

    Maybe they changed it because they wanted the Tone control separate from the Volume control.
     
  15. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    I red schematics library post, but nothing about Mr Caldwell main statements and diagram
    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/122705-more-grounding-misconceptions.html

    and about
    Is the following what he intends for pickups with brided wire (we suppose with only inner positive and outside braided shield negative/ground)?
    ul1.jpg

    Is my diagram correct?
    Thanks a million for the support:applause:
     
  16. gtr-tek

    gtr-tek Fumble Fingers

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    That diagram looks odd to me. I don't like the tone cap config there and the ground to output chain seems to be broken. The third leg of the volume pots normally are wired directly to ground but soldering them to the pot case and the tone cap normally goes to lug one for modern or two for '50s. The jumper from the tone pot to the volume pot would not be used as the tone cap usually serves that function.

    I'd go with one of Martin6Strings diagrams.
     
  17. FFXIhealer

    FFXIhealer Senior Member

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    Yeah, no shit. WHY are you using that crappy diagram? The ones we've offered here in this thread are WAY better, easier to read, and easier to understand. They don't have superfluous wires in there to complicate it.

    What we need from you if we're going to draw up a wiring diagram is what lead is comming out of your pickups (braided/shielded wire), what guitar is it (Les Paul), and how you want the controls to work ('50s or modern).

    You've had a lot of guys here try to really help you, then you come back and keep going back to that one guy's diagram. We've already identified that diagram as confusing and craptastic, yet you continue to go back to it. It's like you don't want our help (even though you asked for it).

    My suggestion is to throw that diagram away. Ignore that it even exists. Find a better one. We can rebuild you. We have the technology. We can make you stronger... faster...
     
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  18. deadringer

    deadringer Senior Member

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    The diagram you posted is awful. DO NOT USE IT. Use one of the many diagrams posted already. You also do not seem to grasp the concept of the braided 2 conductor wire. It is one strand of wire with an inner wire and outer braided shield. It is not two wires like in your diagram!

    [​IMG]

    Also, the right lug of the volume pots gets bent back and soldered to the back of the pot case. Which grounds them, no need for all that extra wiring. The capacitor wiring in your diagram is also wrong. Follow one of the diagrams below and be done with it!

    Martin6string's diagrams are very easy to read. Use his!

     
  19. uldericom

    uldericom Junior Member

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    Thank you all for replies: I hope nobody will kill me only for displaying a diagram that I thought interesting, drawn not by me but by another senior member, simply asking if somebody could give me an opinion and in case of appreciation will give me a tip for braided pickup wires

    sorry, I understood the concept, I'm ignorant and probably not very skilled in english writing, but not stupid. The fact remains that in this cable the braided shield carries, as you told, ground and negative

    If you had read my first post, you would know that my first goal is to have a guitar silent as possible, without those buzzes disappearing only when touching strings, as happens not only with the les paul custom in subject, but also with the other two I owe, having wiring similar to the ones you are proposing.

    Finally: if I wasn' motivated by above goal and technical assessments coming from another post of a senior member (that also is a harware producer), I wouldn't have done this post, rewiring by myself and following standard wirings "same old soup".....50's or other no matter, are all clear to me, as well as the fact that they work.

    A suggestion: it was simplier and more polite to answer as follow:

    that diagram, for us, doesn't work fine (the one of Mr caldwell, not my interpretation for braided wires),

    .............maybe adding a technical motivation

    Everithing else............? not necessary

    Thanks anyway:shock:
     
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  20. FFXIhealer

    FFXIhealer Senior Member

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    Any kind of serious buzzing you're hearing from your guitar (assuming it has HUMBUCKERS equipped) will be from a ground loop. There's no other explanation. And a ground loop comes from improper wiring. The more complicated you make a circuit, the greater the chance of forming a grounding loop.

    The reason people keep pointing at the diagrams we do is because they are as simple as possible while still attaining function and usability. When a guitar is wired as such, I do not hear buzzing. (not counting my Hagstrom Ultra-Swede, which has a coil-cutting switch turning them into buzzy single-coils)

    You showed us pictures of the inside of your guitar's control cavity. We all said it looks like a hot mess and should be "redone." Sometimes, the best way to solve a problem is to go back to the beginning and redo it. That way, you have a fresh perspective and you can find the error when you come to it. I know from personal experience that staring at a wiring mess just confuses and discourages you. If you want an example, I could try to show you the inside of my Warmoth Strat. I'm surprised I got the damned thing closed properly it's so cramped in there with wires.

    BUT I got it all working and only made ONE mistake: The output jack was wired backwards. So I got LOTS of buzzing from having about 14 ground loops instead of switching just those two little wires and having the guitar become DEAD quiet (unless I'm playing strings...).

    We're trying to help you out, dude. We understand that not everyone here speaks English natively and we account for that. Has anyone insulted your grammar or spelling? Please tell us so we can jump down his/her throat.

    But keep in mind that you started this whole thread with the word "REWIRE." That implies you're planning on redoing the wiring in your control cavity. We're trying to suggest what to do based on the pictures you provided and the statements you've been making.
     

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