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Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Benjammin, Sep 29, 2017.
They should've ended it with his death, continuing as Jack was lame
Apparently I'm in the minority. Jack himself wasn't as cool as his old man, but i enjoyed seeking out the dirty bastards who killed his father. But i didn't mess around much as Jack. I pretty much immediately got my revenge and quit playing after
The first time I played I thought it was some kind of prank. I just couldn't comprehend that a game could do that. Totally mindblowing. I went about my business finishing the story and then I put the game down. Despite absolutely adoring it and basically going three days straight with almost no sleep, the ending just sucked all the joy out of me. The only other piece of fiction that's pulled that off was the Red Wedding.
A few days later I started a new game and played right up until the point where you go back to your family. I never played that game the whole way through again, never even returned to the family.
But see, I'm probably in the minority on the red wedding too. Things like that make that series great. It's unpredictable. The red wedding had to happen or the story is another boring lord of the rings rehash where all the good guys live and all the bad guys die.
So you never went after John's killer? (which is a "secret" mission)
I like all the above posts because I agree. Storywise John indeed had to die and it is a dramatic way to end it because John was a cool character and for his flaws and deeds in the past a likable character. Ofcourse you're the one controlling him and you have the freedom to act like an asshole and kill everyone and everything and be an ass.
BTW, I just can't play that way, I have to be the good guy, I really hesitated a while before the big foot thing and stuff like that lol. I sometimes felt sorry for running over people in GTA lol.
Anybody remember that call of duty airport civilian killing thing? I tried a couple of times to get out of that without killing, which of course didn't work. It's ingrained or something to not do shit like that, even in a game.
But man, if Jack wasn't such a dork it wouldn't have been bad at all. His character and the way he sounded just took a bit out of the enjoyment of the last part of the game.
Oh don't get me wrong. I think John's death and the Red Wedding are both amazing and two of the greatest moments in their respective mediums (and off-topic, I feel that since deviating from the books Game of Thrones has become a Lord of the Rings rehash), I'm just talking emotionally. After experiencing both of them I felt like puking.
With hindsight I've also come to see the Red Wedding as one of the most badass things any fictional character has pulled off (kudos Tywin Lannister) and Red Wedding reaction videos are the only reaction videos I'll watch because they're always great.
Oh no, I completed the game and killed Edgar Ross and saw the credits roll. But after that? I had no desire to keep playing at that dork. I gave it about 15 minutes and turned it off.
One of the things I didn't like about Red Dead is that despite there being a karma meter it went against your best interests to go on the bad side, because you got stuck with a crappy horse and everyone hated you. Which really just ties into the narrative but from a gameplay perspective that feature was probably the one true misfire the game had.
Can't say I agree with you about the killing though. I love being a complete piece of garbage in games. I play Crusader Kings a lot and I pull all manner of cruel and tyrannical stunts. I've broken into my enemy's castles, captured his entire family and had them all executed, even the babies.
You're a naughty boy.
Just doing what needs to be done.
yeah, I didn't like that either, especially getting killed at the end of all of it
there was a warning at the beginning of the game so you could skip that mission though.
I liked the Red Wedding. I think so many people were routing for Rob that they weren't thinking about the consequences of breaking his arrangement with Frey. I didn't necessarily see that event coming, but they did make Walder Frey out to be someone you didn't want to cross. I figured that would come back in some way
It wasn't just the Freys. The cross-machinations that led to the Red Wedding are a truly astounding piece of writing. A plethora of issues, big and small, lead to it.
1) Robb being declared King in the North. The war was started to rescue Ned Stark. Once Ned's head was on a spike it lost its original purpose. Ideally there would have been an exchange of hostages, but that was complicated by Ned's execution and Arya's escape. By declaring independence Robb overextended himself, as he was claiming the Riverlands as well. The North is impossible to invade from the South, and had Robb simply ruled the North he could have retreated and lived in peace without fear of invasion, but he couldn't do it without turning his back on the Riverlands.
2) Robb letting Theon go, Balon Greyjoy subsequently invading the North and Theon betraying him by taking Winterfell. This simple mistake ruined Robb's credibility, and due to him fighting a war for the Riverlands he couldn't simply flee North to liberate his homeland.
3) Renly's death. The death of Renly Baratheon meant Margaery Tyrell was free to marry Joffrey, which made House Lannister essentially unbeatable with a massive influx of troops, wealth and supplies. This alliance and the subsequent victory at the Blackwater is what prompted Roose Bolton to have Ramsay sack Winterfell, putting Robb in even deeper trouble.
4) Robb breaking his vow to House Frey. Self-explanatory, since he was eventually murdered under Frey's roof, but it wasn't that significant on its own. It cost him Walder Frey's forces, which weakened him further against the bolstered Lannister forces, but ultimately this was a minor issue that only came back to haunt him due to later events.
5) The freeing of Jaime Lannister. Jaime was a massive asset, because with Jaime in his possession he had room to bargain with Tywin. Once Jaime was freed and Tywin found out he had no more leverage. At that point it was safe for another House to eliminate Robb (imagine if Jaime had been in Robb's possession during the Red Wedding). More importantly, this infuriated the vengeful Lord Karstark and made him desperate for revenge-by-proxy.
6) Edmure's folly. Against direct orders, Edmure engaged Ser Gregor Clegane's forces and routed him from a stone mill. This blew a huge hole in Robb's strategy, as he planned to lure Gregor deep into the west, trap him and kill him. Edmure's mistake not only let Gregor slip through Robb's fingers, it also freed Tywin up to race back to King's Landing and win the Battle of the Blackwater. Robb also took two Lannister boys as hostages, who were quickly murdered by Karstark.
7) Karstark's betrayal. The Karstarks made up a massive portion of Robb's army, but instead of placating them he reverted to Ned Stark mode (aka Suicide Mode). Instead of taking Lord Karstark hostage, he beheaded him which dealt the final blow to his army. This made him desperate enough to court Walder Frey's forgiveness, which led to the Red Wedding and his death.
By the end these seven events completely broke him. He couldn't leave the Riverlands, he'd lost his home and his brothers, two of his most powerful bannermen had deserted him, another was undermining him and the Lannister army swelled with Tyrell forces. It was impossible for him to win. The actual Red Wedding was more of a formality. Despite never losing a battle, Robb was broken down by his lack of political acumen and some really crappy luck.
How did this become a GoT thread? Lol
The point I was making was about the Freys. That once Rob went back on his deal with Frey, I figured that was a bad move and might come back on him, and wasn't nearly as surprised as most other people seemed to be when the Red Wedding went down. I never particularly cared for Rob as a character, so it didn't really phase me that he was taken out the way he was. Like Pete was saying, it was an interesting twist, and I did enjoy it on that level
I don't remember a warning or an option to skip that mission. It wasnt traumatic for me, but mowing down helpless civilians isn't the reason I play Call of Duty, that's what GTA and RDR are for
I loved the original RDR on PS2 back in 2004. I never could finish it. Got stuck at the governor mansion and always either ran out of ammo or got killed. Must have tried to pass it at least 100x. Oh well.
Does NOT seem like 13 years ago. AAAAARRGGGHHHHH!!! Time flies too fast!!
I too tend to play games as a good guy. There was a moment in RDR that really bothered me. It's in Mexico and you complete some mission and then the head hancho guy is dragging a young woman off to presumably be raped. It was in a cutscene and Marston walks away shaking his head in disgust. Seemed pretty messed up there was nothing you could do about it
That was some heavy shit. Shows you just how far Marston would go to get his family back. Added an edge to his character.