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Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Andy California, Dec 31, 2017.
Man, I somehow created the same topic twice.
This is tricky but just be sure someone reputable is doing the job. R0 is next best bet.
PRS it is then. Plenty to choose from even in the UK.
Don't worry, it happens.....I've done it myself.
That's not my thing. I like the Les Paul model, but I'm just not obsessed with historic accuracy, "that" PAF tone, Brazillian rosewood fretboards, and the sunburst finish. And, unlike 99% LP fans, I'm not a size queen - I don't dig chunky necks because they supposedly yield a better tone
Well, get a new production LP Standard then, you know, the one with the 'asymmetrical slim-taper' neck. Should do you fine, and since you *will* sell your nearly new R9 for more than £2k you will get some money back on the deal.
On a side note, while I think the physics strongly suggests that the neck size does affect tone, the main reason I like the R9 profile is that it helped cure a worsening case of De Quervain's tendinosis that I inflicted on myself over years of playing on slim, flat C profile necks .
I'm afraid what I said about the neck size might have sounded wrong, as if I'm making fun of people, which I am not. I am not entirely convinced the amount of wood makes difference to tone simply because I don't think anyone has done an at least semi-scientific test. People say, there are no two identical guitars, therefore just playing an R9 against an R0, which I have done, is not a valid test.
On the other hand, I probably buy the theory that more wood equals fatter tone. It's just that when all is said and done, I think the difference in tone is not day and night, and therefore I probably might choose playability over tone in this case (and I've lived with chunky neck'ed Les Pauls for the last 7 years).
I guess, my biggest problem is that due to the myths about the original "bursts" having baseball bats for necks, the supply of slim neck Reissues is scarce. And then even if I was ok with getting an non-CS Gibson, my choice would be limited to an inferior weight-relieved Standard, and not the highest end non-CS Traditional. And, of course, no Tokai at all. All of which suck a big time. And at the same time while people believe that more wood is better tone, you have people write here on the forum saying that they played an original '58 burst and it had a surprisingly slim neck and it was insanely good.
I have a wrist problem myself, and that's why the thoughts of R0. I'll look into De Quervain's tendinosis to determine if that's what I have.
R0s necks are not that slimer thing a 59s neck from what I read
Nobody's making that claim.
So this is a false dilemma. Don't worry about it so much . Seriously.
But this time, just buy what you actually like! Never mind the bollocks.
Just out of curiosity, do you notice above-average fret wear on your main guitars?
The reason I didn't get an R0 initially was that it felt so much different from R9 to me that I was afraid it might feel wrong, "not Les-Paul-y" in the long run
I don't, but my wrist problem has nothing to do with playing the guitar (although I might be doing that wrong too). It's a computer induced trauma.
Truss rods in R9 and R0 are at different depths. And as already mentioned, that creates an issue. An R9 neck cannot be taken down to typical R0 size without hitting the truss rod channel. Somewhere in between, yes.
Totally agree on a Standard. I've enjoyed EVERY Standard I've ever owned (5, granted not a huge sample size). If you're comfortable used, you can find a really nice one.
Ah, the 21st century's upgrade to writer's cramp.
Please try it and let us know the results
My R0 has the V2 neck profile. It feels much slimmer than my R9's neck profile. I find that I have a lot more tension in my left hand and wrist when playing the R0. The break-angle at the wrist is normally worse too when playing the R0. Changing technique and playing posture can reduce that, but it's much easier said than done.
USA Standards don't have a 60s profile any more. Since 2013, they have an asymmetrical slim taper neck. I'm pretty meh about it. I don't find it uncomfortable, I just find all the other neck profiles (apart from R8s) noticeably more comfortable.
The Les Paul Custom has a different profile again from R9s and R0s. It's often described as a C-shape profile. You might find that more comfortable. Plenty of them about in shops in the UK to try, and many of them included in the January sales. Alternatively, the PRS McCarty 594 also has a neck profile that might work well for you. There are some in UK shops to try atm.
What are you looking for out of a Les Paul? You're discovering what you don't want, and/or what doesn't work for you. Are you any closer to discovering what you do want? I've got some sympathy. It took me decades to figure out what I wanted, and I made plenty of buying mistakes along the way too.
There's some good advice in this thread. You're better off selling the R9 and finding something else. You are going to lose some money; just got to think of it as the price of your education in these matters. Your best way to reduce how much you lose is to trade it back to the shop you bought it from (if they have anything else you want instead), or sell it yourself privately on Reverb. If you're anxious about shipping the guitar, sell it as 'Collection Only'.
You're absolutely right: you're not going to find an R0 in a UK shop (UK dealer stock ran out in 2015). The modern equivalent to an R0 was the "Gibson Les Paul Standard Historic 1960 Reissue". Unfortunately, that's now also discontinued, and I don't know of any UK dealers who still have one. There is the odd "Gibson Les Paul True Historic 1960" still in stock - with a price tag to match! - along with the odd "Gibson Custom Les Paul Slim Neck" which probably have the V3 neck profile rather than the R0's V2 profile.
I agree with the advice about looking at USA-line Les Pauls and PRS guitars too. USA-line Les Pauls are a more affordable way to figure out what does and doesn't work for you. You can mod them without worrying too much about resale value. And PRS make phenomenal instruments that have their own sound and playing feel.
The best advice of all though: start hanging out in guitar shops and just play as many different guitars as you can. Doesn't matter if you're interested in buying that guitar or not. Play them to figure out what doesn't work for you, and why. Most of the questions you've got aren't technical - they're personal; they're all about a musician's bond with an instrument - and that bond is often mostly emotional. Spend more time trying instruments out, just to build up that side of things.
Do you have any mates who also play? Take them along with you, so you have someone there to discuss things as you try stuff out. That can help a lot too.
And good luck.
Play the R9, save, buy a slimmer neck next time. You like the Les Paul — why not play and accept it as it is for some time.
At some point you’ll probably wake up from the dream that the LP is “the thing” as well. Fancy a Strat?
Let me make an honest recommendation to you.....a few, actually.
The first is the most important. Find a way to play a lot of guitars. You said in another thread something along the lines of you don't intend to go into a music store and play their Historics with no intention of buying. Why not? A good portion of things you read here on this forum are OPINION BASED and SUBJECTIVE. For every 10 members that tell you a fatter neck makes a discernible tone difference, you will get another 10 (like me) that tell you it won't. Other things that apply to that are but not limited to: the weight of the guitar having anything to do with sustain, Brazilian fret boards making a tone difference, different materials (glues and dyes) making a tone difference.....and on and on and on.
All of the above are subjective. There are many, many threads on each and every one of those topics here, just do a simple search. What you will discover is, there is no "right" answer. I don't care if you are talking about MIJ guitars vs. Historics, Historics vs. other Historics, Historics vs. real Bursts......it's ALL subjective, and boils down to what YOU like, and find comfortable to play.
People (me included) bust your balls around here because they have seen a million of these subjective threads. If you want opinions on it, utilize the search function here instead of starting ANOTHER thread about the SAME THINGS, or trying to circle a thread that you start back to these subjects.
Go find a guitar you like. You can't do that by reading our stuff here on MLP. When push comes to shove, YOU have to be the one that puts a guitar in your hands, through your rig, to decide if it's right for you. It could be a MIJ, an Epi, a Historic, or even a goddamn Strat, but in the end, WE here can't make that decision for you.
To your OP here, HM works for what you want to do, but I am in the "sell what you have and look for another one that works for you" camp. Good luck.
How long have you played your R9, OP?