Questions on Potential Purchase

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by mucklup, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. mucklup

    mucklup Senior Member

    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    103
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Today I checked out a 2009 R8 listed on CL. Yesterday I had another post where I asked if the guitar looked legitimate. Several MLPers gave the thumbs up.

    https://syracuse.craigslist.org/msg/d/gibson-custom-shop-1958/6248630445.html

    After looking at it I have a couple of questions that I could use some help with:

    1. The seller is the original owner and had changed the caps. He said the pots were original, but they are unmarked (no manufacturer/rating/date code, etc.). Does that seem right?

    2. The serial number is inked on. Is that normal for a 2009 R8?

    3. The tailpiece is angled up quite a bit towards the bridge. Any thoughts on that?

    I appreciate any help you can provide.

     
  2. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    325
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    I think the stop bar is like that because he has top wrapped the strings over The top. Have no idea why he replaced the caps.
     
  3. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,121
    Likes Received:
    6,276
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    1. That looks like all new wiring
    2. All historics have inked ser numbers.....maybe a quick 'reissue 101' perusal is needed as that is a pretty basic part of ID-ing this type of guitar
    3. Due to physics. Strings pulling up at the back of the t/p will of course pull it up and forward.
     
  4. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    326
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Presumably because the owner felt that the tone was deficient in some way.
     
  5. thinkgreen

    thinkgreen Senior Member

    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    325
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Maybe. Maybe he needed to make a quick $ and flogged them fake bees lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  6. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

    Messages:
    8,979
    Likes Received:
    7,215
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    1. The seller is the original owner and had changed the caps. He said the pots were original, but they are unmarked (no manufacturer/rating/date code, etc.). Does that seem right?

    2. The serial number is inked on. Is that normal for a 2009 R8?

    3. The tailpiece is angled up quite a bit towards the bridge. Any thoughts on that?

    1. Date of Pots ,IIRC are stamped on the side , so from those pics , can't see it . I'll try and find some older pics I have (some where and get back to you about that) . What tells me (at least some is) original is the ground wire , appears to be as Gibson installs it . Those bends tell me Gibson and some solder joints appear original ... Up to you since in hand eval is always best .
    2. Normal for all Historic LP CS guitars
    3. I'd say because of the top wrap also . If you go back , check by loosening the string and see what happens . If it returns to normal , then you're good to go . Shouldn't have any major "rock" to it. maybe a little movement as it's never a tight fit , but not wobbly . Also, check to see if the studs are solidly in the body and have no play ... showing those holes might be widened out ....
    Looks to me like a good deal(for the price) :yesway:
     
  7. bossaddict

    bossaddict Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    7,064
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Still looks legit to me. Caps, as mentioned, have been changed. Tailpiece is fine too.
     
  8. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Senior Member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Answers:

    1. Yes.
    2. Yes.
    3. The guitar needs a proper setup. He has the studs screwed out to far away from the body, so as they are not properly/securely holding the tailpiece snug/close to the body (too much wiggle room)... hence the upward angle. The top wrap is completely unnecessary if the guitar is properly set up. People go top-wrap usually cause they are to lazy or unable to get a decent string angle over the bridge w/o the strings hitting the back edge of the bridge.
     
  9. Cjsinla

    Cjsinla Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    1,475
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Hey, Ozz, are you sure about number 3? Seems like some mis-information and opinions there.
     
  10. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    254
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    The tailpiece is fine, it’s got pulled to an angle from the topwrap.
    Usually when I see a topwrap I would check the bridge, and the thrusrod. As most of the time, topwrap means heavier strings.
    I wouldn’t worry about the pots and caps when I buy a guitar.
    But this is just me, good luck !
     
  11. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    326
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Ozz, what Cjsinla said re your #3. Top wrapping reduces string tension and you feel that on bends. It makes .10s feel like .09s. Let's keep the facts straight.
     
    mudface likes this.
  12. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,121
    Likes Received:
    6,276
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Mate, obviously you're guessing all of these points here - as there is some seriously false info going on.
    But not only that you've clearly not made even simple observations.
    The t/p studs are ALL the way down. I can't comprehend how on earth you could possibly miss something so blatantly obvious
    Tailpieces which are non locking like that one always have play in them between the studs and the unit itself - so in no way can the height make it snug.
    Topwrap is a personal choice and it's use is some form of mistake or laziness. As others have said, the topwrap often allows for slinky string feel with fully decked studs. Moreover the precise neck angle on the guitar is most often the most influential part of setup.

    This is not a forum that you will be able to bluff with your poor observations, reasoning and conclusions.
     
    thinkgreen and mudface like this.
  13. JEDHRMC

    JEDHRMC Junior Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    About the top wrap... I've seen factory ads from 1957 onwards with pictures where they are top wrapped....
     
  14. mucklup

    mucklup Senior Member

    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    103
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    I wanted to give an update. I decided to pass on the guitar. After all the great info provided here, I was ok with pots, tailpiece and knobs (mismatched, but who cares). I hadn't however mentioned a "defect" in the grain just above the bridge pickup. It shows up in the pictures, but in person it really stands out. I may sound like a jerk, but it was one of those things I would notice every time I took it out, and for $2k+ I might as well get something I'm totally happy with. I could (and do) live with scratches and dings (which this didn't have), but this just struck me the wrong way.

    Thanks for all the advice.
     
  15. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    254
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Passing on that guitar is understandable, I probably would have, but for that grain?
     
  16. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Senior Member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Unless there is something structurally wrong with the guitar (warped neck, bad neck angle, busted truss rod, etc) the top wrap is completely unnecessary. And I have set up a lot of Les Pauls... Historic RIs, production, CS Sigs... a proper set up is the ticket.
     
  17. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    8,361
    Likes Received:
    13,819
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    It's not about necessity, it's about preference. I top wrap all of my guitars, and it most certainly does make a difference in feel.
     
    VictorB likes this.
  18. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    326
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Ozz, doubling-down on being wrong isn't a terribly good idea.
     
    RayTorvalds likes this.
  19. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Senior Member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Who's bluffing. It's fact. Tighten the tailpiece studs down far enough and the tailpiece won't rock back and fourth like that. You can see from the pic that the studs are NOT tightened all the way down. It's physics. There is no mis-information from me. If your guitar is sound, the top wrap is not necessary. People often use it to get the string clearance from hitting the back of the bridge.

    Now if you like the feel of the top wrap or you feel it makes bends easier ... that is another story and not at all what I stated. Reread my original post.
     
  20. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,121
    Likes Received:
    6,276
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    1. The studs are level with the guitar surface for one. How can you not see that is beyond belief.
    2. There is ALWAYS movement between a tailpiece and the studs. Having it high or low doesn't change that in the slightest.
    The ONLY way you will get it to bind/lock is by sitting them at different heights so the t/p sits diagonally, or the rare case where the studs are crooked. It is physically impossible for something sitting on parallel lines to be loose higher but then tight lower. The very nature of parallel make this impossible.
    I'm not sure how on earth your understanding of physics works, but its certainly not in any way related to the physics used by scientists.
     
    RayTorvalds, BBD and mudface like this.

Share This Page