Pigtail bushing installation???

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Maxman, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. Maxman

    Maxman Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Hello all, nice to be here, banned from other LP site for voicing MY opinion. Didn't quite comply with the minions over there I guess. Anyway, I want to install a pigtail stop tail piece on a M@x LP, it currently has Historic hardware on it and I was wondering how to remove the stud bushings?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Markster

    Markster V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    235
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Get a socket that is big enough so the bushing can freely go up into it. Go to the hardware store and buy a bolt with fine threads. (about 2" long depending on your socket height) Take a piece of cardboard and cut a circle hole in it big enough for the bushing to pass through. Lay the cardboard you cut over the top of your guitar centered over the bushing.(This protects your top.) Then place the socket over the cardboard. Stick your bolt through the top of the socket into the bushing and tighten. This will pull the bushing out of the guitar. (The bushing is actually pulled into the socket, so make sure the socket is big enough.)

    It's easy, just take your time. :cheers:

    Seems lots of people have been banned at the LPF lately. :fingersx:
     
    C_Becker likes this.
  3. FLICKOFLASH

    FLICKOFLASH V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    24,768
    Likes Received:
    8,405
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    1
    I use about 6 large washers that the stud bushing will fit thru
    & one That the thread of the stud only fits thru

    ( put tape on the bottom washer to protect paint)

    2
    Heat the bushing with a soldering iron

    3
    Stack the washers with smallest on top & screw the stud into the bushing which raises the bushings up & out as you tighten
     
  4. Maxman

    Maxman Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Thanks, I really appreciate it!
     
  5. Markster

    Markster V.I.P. Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    235
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    I've also always scored the nitro around the bushing with an exacto.
     
    DanD likes this.
  6. GuitarGal

    GuitarGal Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    :wave: Maxman~

    Welcome here~
     
  7. FLICKOFLASH

    FLICKOFLASH V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    24,768
    Likes Received:
    8,405
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    found this on the net
    here is how to put the pigtail bushings in



    things you will need:

    1) 5/16" - 24 unf hex bolt - length will vary approx 2 1/2"
    2) socket set
    3) 1/4" thick rubber pad 2" square
    4) 5-10 5/16" nom id washers
    5) drill press

    cut a hole in the rubber just a little bigger than bushing.

    cut rubber to shape to avoid tone knobs when rubber lays flat on axe.

    (rubber must be bigger diameter than socket or you will fuck up axe)

    a) lay rubber over bushing with old stud removed

    b) place a larger socket over bushing hole, screw in 5/16 hex bolt,
    thru opening of socket with washers between bolt head and socket


    d) make sure rubber is under socket to protect axe

    e) tighten the screw with a wrench or socket set and it will pull up old bushing from guitar into the inside of the socket
    that is laying on guitar


    this is an easy method! just make sure that there is room and
    thread to drive the old stud into the inside of the socket head.
    that stud needs room to go if it is not inside the guitar. be sure the inside of the socket
    is longer than the stud or it will lock up.
    be sure the thread in the 5/16" bolt
    is longer than the thread of the stud
    you are removing. picture in your mind what is happening here before you attempt
    to do it! you can vary the number of washers used to get the lengths right.

    go slow and think things out first

    to install new stud:

    go to a drill press and install a solid rod of steel, just a little
    smaller than the bushing diameter.

    hold the new stud in place and be sure it is not angled

    hand crank the drill press and drive the steel rod into the
    bushing which will drive it into the guitar


    :thumb:
     
  8. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    834
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    There's good info here and I've used the washer method myself, although I used 3 stacked rubber washers on the bottom of the washer stack (against the top) to protect the finish.

    My experience is that:
    1 the new bushing made no difference

    2 the new bushing is not as snug as the original bushing

    3 the ground wire bushing interface is difficult to do properly (on the last few I soldered the ground wire to the bottom lip of the bushing)

    Personally, unless you are replacing a 3/4" bushing with a 1" bushing it is simply not worth the effort.

    PSA: THIS ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT.

    YMMV... :cheers2:
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
    Subterfuge likes this.
  9. rockinlespaul

    rockinlespaul Oxblood Addict V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    10,271
    Likes Received:
    10,421
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    To get the old bushing out, just use a long stud. Once it bottoms out, the bushing will rise up.
     
  10. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Thanks for the advice, I received the Pigtail vintage studs and bushings this week and had been contemplating installing the new bushings, but after reading this I believe I will just leave the original ones in the body
     
    DanD likes this.
  11. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    834
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    After going through bushing swaps and using different locking mechanisms for the tail piece I've found that the Faber locking system has the most positive affect with the least drawbacks.

    There are other locking systems that work well, like the Gotoh, but the appearance is hampered by the slot head screw studs.

    The Faber system allows the tail piece to sit flush vs the typical tail piece lean that happens with the stock tail piece and studs and the Tone Pros hardware.

    My only complaint with Faber hardware is that the height adjustment of the tail piece is limited to 3 settings.

    That said, all my current Rs ('11s thru '15s) had the long bushings installed at the factory and they all remain stock.

    I just deal with the tail piece lean and the dangling at string changes or I change one string at a time.

    Some special run '11s, like my DCHP R9, and all '12 and up Rs already use the long bushings and studs.

    While I hear a significant difference between tail piece materials, saddle materials, and different tuners (vintage vs Grover) I personally have not experienced a significant tonal benefit from studs.

    The Faber system did seem to add a bit of sustain and the Tone Pros locking tail piece does simplify string changes but after going through the gamut of options I don't feel there is a cost benefit ratio to these mods if you already have the long bushing and studs from the factory.

    Most of the Rs I've modded had the 3/4" studs and bushings. After having modded studs on over a dozen Rs from '00 - '09 I doubt I'd do any mod to the bushings on any year R at this point.

    I may try different stud materials if I ever own another pre '11 R but I won't be changing out the bushings.

    It may be that my ears aren't 'good' enough to hear any improvement with bushings. I can definitely hear material differences at the nut, tuners, bridge, saddles, and tail piece but not with the bushings.

    I'm not saying some folks don't hear a difference. I just know that whatever improvement I heard, mainly with the Faber system, was so slight that I personally consider these mods a moot point.

    :cheers2:
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  12. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    bought the PigTail studs w/bushing because I bought a DMC V.2 Tailpiece and I didn't realize if you have a vintage narrow ear tailpiece you need vintage studs, Historic studs had .030" play and tailpiece slanted forward, love the studs and had always heard so much about PigTail bushings but just wasn't 100% sure about doing the swap
     
    DanD likes this.
  13. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    17,278
    Likes Received:
    20,529
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Good advice.....but....

    "Maior Malleo" {latin}

    Get a Bigger Hammer...... is my standard...
     
  14. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,220
    Likes Received:
    7,454
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Get a pro to do it ..... Or , buy the tool Stew Mac sells for this job . Or take and use the advice given above . All will work just fine . IMO , Your level of skill in doing this type of work should direct you to what you should do .
    IMO , Not a job for those who don't already know what to do ....
    I would say try practicing on a Cheap guitar 1st. So you know what needs to be done (get a feel for the process, and be comfortable doing it ) , before using a M@x guitar for your 1st attempt ...
     
  15. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    doing the job is no sweat, press them back in with the drill press, it was the part where someone mentioned in a post .. 1. the new bushing made no difference and 2. the new bushing is not as snug as the original bushing that kind of put the brakes on the idea ..
     
  16. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    834
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    If you must change out bushings, which I won't do any more, and you want to maintain the snuggest fit possible you can place the new bushings in the freezer for a couple days before the install and they'll contract some. This will allow the bushing to seat with less pressure and less damage to the wood.

    I still don't suggest doing the bushing swap but if one must do it the freezer method will have the least impact on the guitars wood.

    I've had some bushings that would press fit with thumb pressure after freezing them.

    I do feel that just the removal of the original bushings compromises the stud holes to some degree. Some bushing removals I've done were worse than others on the wood/bushing interface. It's really a crap shoot as to how cleanly the old bushing pulls out... :Ohno:
     
  17. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    again, thanks for the advice, I was also reading how people replaced the original bridge posts with 1-1/2" Stainless posts, it's a crap shoot, the original factory fit vanishes once the post comes out, I know it's a reversible mod but I'm wondering if both items are just better left as the factory intended ..
     
  18. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    834
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Stainless posts will have an impact on your tone IME. Brighter, sharper, and more on the brittle side. I've only done that mod once as once was enough to dissuade me from doing it again.

    Unless you have leaning bridge posts I'd leave well enough alone. If your bridge posts do lean and you are trying to fix it I'd stick with a regular steel post. Steel is still stronger than brass and the impact on tone is far less noticeable to me.

    I've heard many people say they were happy with the stainless posts and some like me that could hear a difference. Again, another crap shoot that I personally wouldn't engage in UNLESS I was addressing a bridge post lean problem.

    The last couple of leaning bridge posts I encountered were dealt with by threading a long nut (sometimes referred to as'stand-offs') on to the post and then straightening the post. I followed up by raising the tail piece slightly so there was less pressure on the post.

    Older Rs (the ones I've seen were '04s and '05s) had the post holes drilled at the wrong angle to the fretboard. That situation requires filling the old post holes and redrilling new post holes at the proper angle to the fretboard. This issue, in my book, is best left to a professional luthier with a good amount of experience with LPs.

    If the bridge posts lean forward when they are unbent no post material substitution will address the issue.
    :cheers2:
     
  19. Uncle Vinnie

    Uncle Vinnie Senior Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    754
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2017
  20. bulletproof

    bulletproof aka tarddoggy Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    11,524
    Likes Received:
    27,409
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Man,this thread goes back aways!!
     

Share This Page