Pawn Stars 1961 Gibson Les Paul SG

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Fishman, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Smash88

    Smash88 Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    238
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    7 hrs left, the price hasn't moved in a while (currently 100,100.00) and the reserve hasn't been met. The biggest evidence that something is afoot is that the pawn stars refuse to clear up any doubt about the guit which means they are either hiding something or they don't feel they need to (ignorance? arrogance?) hardly an excuse when this kinda money is on the line. The auction will most likely end w/o a sale... so what happens next?
     
  2. LPG

    LPG I PLAY LIVE Premium Member

    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    6,469
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    My take.....the guitar stays at $100,000.

    Why?

    Because that bid has been submitted by the pawn shop (through third party) as a way to try to drive the price up.
    Common bidding practice.

    No facts...just an opinion.
     
    2 people like this.
  3. lespaul01

    lespaul01 Banned

    Messages:
    16,929
    Likes Received:
    16,585
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    I think like usual there will be a flurry at the end/
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. BillB1960

    BillB1960 Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,911
    Likes Received:
    21,219
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Portland, OR
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. Smash88

    Smash88 Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    238
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    SOLD!!!! I'll hang it on the wall right next to Eric Claptons Ibanez Iceman that he used while in the Yardbirds that I got off ebay for 305k....its one of a kind got it from his 8th cousins 4th wife. STOKED!
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Not-A-Player

    Not-A-Player Junior Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Had one more thing to say... as an outsider to the guitar world with no emotions involved and nothing to gain or lose, the whole deal with this guitar and the Pawn Stars hype just smells funny to me. I do detailed investigations of sorts in my work and therefore have a keen eye for picking out what doesn't add up.

    Knowing what we know now that you experts have described all of the reasons this guitar has to be a '63 model, I honestly can't imagine any reason that anyone would ever describe this as a '61 for reasons other than wanting to fool someone into believing that (at the least) the guitar had a stronger association with Les Paul, or (at the most) a complete fabrication.

    No pictures of Mary with the guitar?
    No pictures of Greg with the guitar?
    No pictures of the guitar in it's original condition when presented from Mary to Greg?
    No pictures whatsoever that might prove (or disprove) any of the claims?

    ---

    Statements that the family member has made here such as:

    What is the story? Why haven't you shared it with us?

    That just doesn't make any sense.

    ---

    Add to this that we have a guitar repairman who still chooses to remain anonymous and who obvously has worked on the guitar (from his own pictures) and is close to the family and who should have the knowledge and expertise to validate it being a '61 or a '63 who says this:

    You'd think Les himself would know if this were true. How does this guy get a story about Greg talking to Les about it being a '61 anyway unless it is a point of issue or discussion?

    He says that he "should" have taken a picture of the date codes on the pots and he wrote them down somewhere but has lost that sticky note... but yet he still doesn't make any definitive statement about the guitar being a '61.

    ---

    The fact that the Cowtown expert either (at the least) can't tell a '61 from a '63, or (at the worst) blatently misrepresented the guitar as a '61 should give people great pause. Even more troubling is that the guitar was orignially taken to Cowtown for consignment according to the family member who posted here.

    The Cowtown expert even went so far as to say on the show that "this guitar has been on album covers". Was he trying to plant the idea that this guitar is the one on the cover of Warm and Wonderful? Is that what everyone involved is attempting to do?

    ---

    I have a creed that I use often when dealing with situations and people where I need to determine the reality... IF YOU LISTEN CLOSELY, PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW.

    Seperate all of the facts out from the lights, buzzers & bells in this situation and what remains is a '63 supposedly owned by Mary that a few people (who all know each other very well) have chosen to represent as a '61 that Mary owned. Couple that with a pair of TV stars who have everything to gain by perpetuating that story and a deaf, dumb & blind kid should be able to tell that it doesn't smell right.
     
    7 people like this.
  7. Breakfastime

    Breakfastime Member

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    I've been busy tracking down the repairman known as 'hasbeenracer' and have positive ID on his name, business addresses and phone numbers. Unfortunately, the trail goes cold here as his phone numbers are all defunct and no records exist of him operating a registered business at any of the addresses in the past few years. And I've been on the horn with halls of record and newspapers all over the San Gabriel Valley area.

    Hasbeenracer (using his nym or his real name) hasn't seen much internet activity in the past couple of years, but a facebook page does exist under his real name (with sparse activity as well) but he did recently become friends with Cowtown guitars on this facebook page. Of course, this proves nothing except that he is indeed reclusive, if he's even still alive. And that whoever runs the facebook page is friends with Cowtown guitars. It also doesn't prove/disprove that it was him who posted his pics and assured us all that the guitar is the real deal.

    Robb Lawrence, author of the 'Les Paul Legacy' book, is certain the guitar is legit, so there's a positive point. So, at least since a few years ago, this instrument has been attached to Mary Ford's name. Unsure exactly how (or when) Robb was able to certify that this instrument was indeed the property of Mary Ford since she's been deceased since 1977, but he wrote the book and says everything matches up--i.e., that the guitar on Pawn Stars is the same guitar in the Robb Lawrence book. Still unsure how the instrument is tied to Mary Ford, except that the relative on the show is apparantly who he says he is, and says the guitar belonged to Mary.

    So, the only really concrete thing is that the relative says it was Mary's guitar.
    And this celebrity conncetion is the only thing that makes the instrument worth ten times what it ordinarily would be worth.:cool:

    Another point to consider is E-bay's own handling of the issue, in their own words from the 'EBay stories blog':

    "When asked about the authenticity of the guitar, the seller noted that two guitar experts validated the year the guitar was made (1961) and that it was owned by Mary Ford. The seller said, “Jesse knows a lot about guitars, so I am going to go with him.” He also refuted a rumor that the guitar sat in a local guitar shop, Cowtown, for awhile before it was brought to the pawn shop. “That is simply false,” he said."

    Please note: no mention of Jesse's connection to Cowtown guitars
    (Jesse Amoroso became the owner of Cowtown in 2011 after working there many years.)
    The story fails to mention who the other expert is, or what guitar shop he works at.

    Probably not 'important' details I figure...

    Next, E-bay manages to slip in a caveat, ensuring their own plausible deniability in the even that the guitar winds up being a 'bait and switch' :
    "As always, we recommend any buyer be diligent in getting all questions answered before committing to buy. But as far as we can ascertain, this auction is for a piece of Les Paul musical and life history, one that is worthy of the attention it has garnered."

    I believe that a 'bait and switch' here is possible, going back several years...seeing as how almost three decades transpired between Mary Ford's passsing and the resurfacing of this guitar.

    BTW: I just laid my Les Paul Classic on top of a stack of old album covers.
    Now I can say that "this guitar has been on album covers", right? :naughty:
     
    2 people like this.
  8. HOT-BRIT

    HOT-BRIT V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    20,979
    Likes Received:
    16,542
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    the plot thickens
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. BillB1960

    BillB1960 Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,911
    Likes Received:
    21,219
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Do you really think so? I don't see much more info here right now. A simple google search of "hasbeenracer" turned up all the info in the previous post including phone numbers, addresses, business names, facebook page, etc. I don't think it was any great feat of detective work, it took me about 2 minutes to get it. I didn't call the phone numbers but I'll take it as fact that they don't work. Regardless what does this really tell us?

    It is interesting to note that the author of the book which featured the guitar "authenticated" it but OTOH would you expect him not to? It was in his book after all.

    I'm not trying to cast aspersions here but I just don't see how we have much more cogent info than we did before.
     
  10. nicolasrivera

    nicolasrivera Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,564
    Likes Received:
    10,594
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Smash88

    Smash88 Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    238
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Will be interesting to see what happens after ebay...will it end up back at cowtown guits?
     
  12. Breakfastime

    Breakfastime Member

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    I would not be surprised if the "private collector who won the auction" might decide sometime in the future to "break up the set" and we'll see the memorabilia (which is in fact authentic) back on the market at an escalated price.

    The guitar might well disappear down the memory hole, but keep your eyes peeled because it would also not be surprising if a "very rare 1963 LP/SG in Pelham Blue" appears for sale in a certain shop in Vegas.

    Just a hunch.
     
  13. guitar 1940

    guitar 1940 Junior Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Hello all - new user here and a super Les and Mary fan going back to 1949 - I've been following this debate with a great deal of interest and have a suggestion for someone who has the connections to follow up - when Mary went back to California after the divorce, she worked from time to time with her brother Bob Summers - they did several 45 rpm sessions as well as that "New Ford" album for the dealership - all of which you see from time to time on ebay - also, he was the guitarist on all of the Millie Pace albums that included Carol Corona (Mary's sister, and Gregs mom) from that personal and working relationship, I would imagine that Bob Summers would have the most direct and current knowledge of the history of the guitar both when it belonged to Mary and later to Greg - Mary also did an album with Foy Willing who she had known before Les - but her presence in the mix is pretty much subdued as far as I can tell -

    The 60's Bruno of Hollywood pictures show Les and Mary with matching SG's with the original vibrato but customized which I assume was removing the middle pickup and covering it over with a large pickguard - also, the publicity photo when they did the "Bell Telephone Hour" shows Mary holding a matching older white custom with what looks like the low impedance pickups - possibly the two Custom flattops that Les had made - as I remember on the show itself, they used old style customs but one was black and the other white - so, she already had a customized SG which makes me wonder why she ended up with the current one - whatever year it is -

    I would love to know where the original goldtop with the es175 tailpiece is - now that one would have some provenance - well, be interesting to see how this all plays out

    Might as well add here that it has long been my feeling that Mary never really got her due as a part of the Les and Mary machine - she was a terrific guitarist and vocally right on with everything she did - terrifically talented lady who left us too early - it's also been my feeling that she played guitar on many of the original tracks they did before the system was able to take on additional dubbing layers - listen to the old radio shows -
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Fletch

    Fletch V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    2,983
    Likes Received:
    1,546
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Huh. $110,000
     
  15. bucklerash

    bucklerash Senior Member

    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    65
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    I was surprised to see the reserve met--$110k. Let's see if it gets "relisted."
     
  16. beakos

    beakos Member

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Sold - $110,000.00
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. nicolasrivera

    nicolasrivera Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,564
    Likes Received:
    10,594
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Great price for a guitar that was touched by a great singer and guitar player and by a pioneer on our modern era.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. beakos

    beakos Member

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    How much profit would you think was made on this?
     
  19. Core

    Core Senior Member

    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    171
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Ok we can all go home now. Move along nothing to see here! :laugh:
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Actinic

    Actinic Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    $20K minus FVF. The transaction will have to be completed with a certified check or bank wire. Too large for Paypal.
     

Share This Page