OK,I'm just gonna say it outright...

Discussion in 'Vendor Classifieds' started by bruce bennett, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Banned

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    I'm Sorry, but I just closed up another POS Asian made PC boarded Tube amp that SUCKED to repair and the guy won't pay for it becasue the repair costs more than the amp did NEW.. EVEN though i warned him that could be the case, and he says "yeah go ahead, I need it done":slash:..

    :cool: OK if your sure...

    here's the bill..:shock::wow:

    I Don't understand why people are willing to give hard earned money for musical equipment that is not up to the real world performance demands of what this stuff was intended to be used for.
    Live Gigging.


    Now, if your just playing at home, thats fine, you can click out of this thread now.

    but if you seriously intend upon playing your local club even a mere 12 times a year. then buying a dirt cheap PC board tube amp, that's not ready for all the the moving around and high SPLs of a live gig.. and still spending several hundred bucks on it.. This will never make "$cents" to me. and speaking as a repairman.. I HATE working on this crap!

    The main reason why Vintage amps are so sought after is because they are BUILT to be USED. and they can handle the road work. and you can even get them pretty darn cheap right now too!

    as a musician, Spend the few extra and get an amp that can ride down the road AND deliver the tones, and stop buying all this Overseas made Junk.
    feel free to flame away.. but I've said my piece. and I stand behind it.
    rant over.
     
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  2. rockinlespaul

    rockinlespaul Recovering Oxblood Addict V.I.P. Member

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    I agree 100% Bruce.
     
  3. Splattle101

    Splattle101 V.I.P. Member

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    Those old overseas made Marshalls really sucked, eh?:naughty::cool::D
     
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  4. X–Ray

    X–Ray Cowbell by Misadventure Premium Member

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    Thanks for the advice based on the benefit of your experience

    Beats me why a flame suit needed
     
  5. So What

    So What Senior Member

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    Speaking as a consumer, I don't think it really comes down to just a few $100 more for a quality amp.

    Almost every major brand has moved production out of the original country for cheap labor. This is usually combined with cheaper components.

    A Marshall made in Indonesia, India, China...wherever, is going to run around $600.

    The only UK made models are $1500-$2500.

    That is a BIG difference.

    Fender MIA vs MIM amps are closer in price, which means the MIM amps are over priced, while the MIA prices have been kept a bit more controlled. But I imagine it is all pcb's built by Latinos in Corona or Latinos in Ensenada.

    So the cash strapped musician has to buy what he can afford. Which is the quality of amp you are talking about.

    Then, if we are lucky to save up enough to buy a "good" amp, how do we decide what to buy? We already know what a UK made Marshall is supposed to sound like, or a MIA Fender.

    So the alternative becomes a boutique builder like yourself.

    As a buyer, who doesn't have the opportunity to go to a dealer of these boutique amps, I don't know exactly what sonic profile to expect from a boutique builder's POV of how a Marshall Clone or Fender Clone should sound.

    This doesn't mean you didn't nail the tone exactly right, it just means that we have to take a leap of faith with our money, and hope that the tone you built into your amp, is the sound we are looking for.

    Based on your other Krayon thread, it seems your prices may not be extreme.

    But most of them are, from what I have seen.

    But by the time a guy has saved up enough to buy a great amp, he usually has that Holy Grail Marshall, Fender, Mesa he's always wanted, and buys that.

    Or, he buys a new guitar, and sticks with the cheap amp he's been using.

    This is just one man's opinion.

    .
     
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  6. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Banned

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    really!? and me with the last name of "Bennett"

    Of course its a known fact that for ALL english made gear, a good BASH on the side is a solid cure-all.

    Funny how you NEVER have to do that with American made gear..:naughty:

    Just JK.
     
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  7. Dolebludger

    Dolebludger Premium Member

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    As I see it, the problem isn't so much where the amp is built, but how it is built. When all an amp needs is a new resistor, but you have to replace a circuit board (if you can get one), you have junk--even if it was built un the USA. And some gear like that is. What we all need is an amp with good wiring and components that are possible to replace, along with a sturdy chassis. And of course, we all want the amp to sound great, too

    A good way to get a great sounding reliable and repairable amp is to buy one from a boutique builder. I don't have any experience with Bruce, but my builder had a lot of communication about the tone I wanted, and he nailed it even though we live 2000 miles apart. Pretty sure Bruce would operate the same way. And the cost was about the same as lower priced Mesa, which to me have a nasal mid range so bad that they sound like they have a cold.

    I've wasted a lot more money on factory amps and multiple guitars I didn't need, when all I ever needed was a couple of guitars and a boutique amp.
     
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  8. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Banned

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    I suddenly had a vision of a dog about to lay down.

    You sir, should run for public office.
     
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  9. So What

    So What Senior Member

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    Well, I wasn't trying to speak in circles.

    Just thinking out loud I guess.

    I'm looking for a Fender voiced amp.

    Send me one of yours, and if I like it, I'll send you the money.

    .
     
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  10. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Banned

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    I agree with you,

    the other factor in this is American labor for the repair..

    If your going to pay Asian price for the amp. DON'T forget that "When" it breaks down you WILL be paying AMERICAN LABOR to get it repaired..

    Now I'm sorry if you don't like it..
    but I doubt seriously if YOU will work for .33 per hour..
    So why would you ask me to?

    I'm Just saying peoples "values" of musical gear and what it should cost are outta whack.
     
  11. Trout

    Trout Senior Member

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    I think it's because of ignorance.

    It's not like there's a big sign on the amp aisle at Guitar Denter that states: "These amps are not intended for road trips and live gigging. These are disposable amps that are fragile and soft... like a pussy... cat"

    Folks (like me) associate certain brand names with quality. We are deceived when the brand quietly changes their manufacturing methods and locations... and does not change their price to reflect the diminished quality.
     
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  12. CHUNKYNECK

    CHUNKYNECK Senior Member

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    The days of the TV repair man, air conditioner repair, fridge and washing machine are just about over. Amps are just on the tail end of that list. If they build things that last forever then how are they going to make any money?

    I don't like or agree with this but have to accept that it's usually cheaper to replace rather than fix most things these days unless you are willing to get in there yourself.
     
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  13. Splattle101

    Splattle101 V.I.P. Member

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    It's not where it's made. It's how it's made.

    There was nothing magical about the way Lupe or Lily wired up the old Fenders. In fact, those girls are good example of the problems of QA in hand made products. There are folk who can tell you who wired your Bassman depending on how certain parts of the circuit are done. :shock: Lupe or Lily or some other young girl. And you can bet your bottom dollar that those girls were the cheapest labour Leo could get his hands on. Girls for a start: there was no equal pay for women back then. :hmm:

    What drives low quality is the price point. Every kid and every poseur wants a Gibson and a Marshall or a top line Fender. That gear wasn't available to every bedroom player in the 1960s. There wouldn't have been many kids back then, saving to go to university while trying to figure out what kind of bedroom guitar amp to take with them so they can rawk their Gibson Les Paul in the dorm. For-f**kin'-real, kiddies, the stuff we're talking about is pro level gear, and it was EXPENSIVE.

    So yes, if you want a cheap version of the amp that any kid or poseur can afford to buy, then yes, it's going to be built down to that price point. And no, it's not very likely to survive the vicissitudes of life on the road. For that you need a pro level rig, and that will cost.
     
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  14. Splattle101

    Splattle101 V.I.P. Member

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    Part of the problem lies in the buyer's head. When they buy an amp with 'Marshall' on the front, they think they've bought something pro-level, but that might not be the case. It could be a toy, designed for a kid or poseur. But you can also guarantee that no buyer will think of themselves as that kid or poser. :lol:

    "Yeah, those other people who buy this cheapo amp are all kids or wankers, but not me: I'm a serious bedroom guitar player." :D
     
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  15. Mexicanbreed

    Mexicanbreed Senior Member

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    I resemble that remark!
     
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  16. bruce bennett

    bruce bennett Banned

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    its not JUST about how it's made, or even where it's made..
    its about chooseing the right tool, for the job you intend to use it for.

    I just bought a nice Dual Action sander for my guitar/amp cab work...
    but I just found out my old 40 gallon air compressor can't supply enough CFM to run it!.

    now that's totally my fault.. not the manufacturer of the air compressor. or the DA sander's.
    I should have done my research and bought the right tool..
    OR ...
    waited until I could afford the right tools.
    now I have a new DA sander that will sit in a box until I can afford to buy a 2K 80 gal. 5 HP 20 CFM air Compressor.

    making bad buying decisions hurts..
     
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  17. colchar

    colchar Banned

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    Marshall started using PCBs in the early '70s. Do people complain about those amps? I'm actually asking as I don't know whether they are or not.

    As another amp builder/modder here has said:

    "PCB is by itself meaningless. Who designed it?

    I have undone too many lousy "hand wired" builds (eyelet, turret, and true point to point) to count.

    I've also corrected a lot of bad PCB layouts (Korg masquerading as Marshall, I'm talking to you).

    The best laid out 5E3 clone I've serviced was PCB, designed by my friend Rob Hull at tubedepot.com. High quality PCB, thick traces, no oscillation or parasitic issues (which are VERY common in "hand wired" amps).

    I've serviced amps from Suhr, Bogner, and Soldano - really great PCBs. I use PCBs in my own designs, and I sweat over every aspect of the layout.
    "


    So maybe it is more of a design thing than a PCB thing?
     
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  18. colchar

    colchar Banned

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    Traynor hasn't (well their solid state amps are made overseas but their tube amps are made just the other side of Toronto from where I live).
     
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  19. THDNUT

    THDNUT Senior Member

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    You can use the new sander for 30 seconds at a time. :hmm:
     
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  20. Who

    Who are you? Who who who who.... Premium Member

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    When it comes to gigging, have a spare for everything.



    When it comes to this customer.... he's a douche. He agreed to pay for a repair, and now won't pay.

    So you're stuck with an amp that is worth less than the value of the work you did? That sucks, and the guy is a douche.
     
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