No more BS !!! ,who's played a real burst????

Discussion in 'Vintage Les Pauls' started by bonanza2252003, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    I get tired of people comparing their Historics ,Max ,Guitar clinnic ,Derrig or any other Replica to the originals. Despite what the BS'ers that float around here say ,99.9 % of us have never even seen a real burst in person let alone played one. I don't believe for one ,a human can fit a neck to the tolerances of a CNC machine ,but yet it is claimed a real burst can sustain about the same amount of time it takes a nuclear fuel cell to reach its half life.(IE:1000 years). That suggests a human can do it better than a CNC( Rubbish I say).I believe the new guitars are better in many ways .The wood the originals were made with is not readily available but the Historics are made with the best wood available today and have superior building techniques compared to an original. Are they different .Yes a little .But I believe better !!! The 50's electronics can be easily replicated and are. With the correct electronics and a historic with good wood ( the best woods are being used for the 59's and some artist models) I belive you have a superior guitar .Again like most of us I have never played a 50's burst and probably never will so its just my opinion.But its like trying to tell me that a Ford model T is going to out perform my Mustang (nonsense). Manufacturing techniques have been perfected and that coupled with the watchful eye of the cutom shop, great guitars are produced ,probably superior to the originals. My 59 historic is very light and the body resonates like crazy.It is super loud acoustically when not plugged in compared to any other guitar I own or have played. When l lye on the bed with the guitar on my chest and strum I can feel the body resonating forcefully.All this talk about superior craftsmanship ,better pickups etc. is also nonsense. Gibsons original winders had + or - tolerance of 15 % .so some of the pickups were shit and some were good.The craftsman of today are every bit as good as those in the 50's. Gibsons Were not even popular in the 50's and early 60's thats why there are so few originals. They sold for cheap.and it wasn't until Clapton ,Page,Green Etc .started using them that everyone had to have one. Until I can line up 10 original bursts , 10 historics and 10 off the shelf les pauls and run them through the same amp .And have 100 of the best musicians on the planet test them and pick out the ones they believe are superior (without knowing which is which) and they can consistently choose the originals , or blind fold them and get them again to pick out the originals consitently (I would bet a lot of money that they couldn't) I will continue to call BULL SHIT.I would even veture to say they would probably pick historics or off the shelf les Pauls more than they would the originals based on tone alone (what is tone anyway ?)A good guitar is a GOOD GUITAR !!!!END OF STORY. OK thats my rant .:lol::lol::lol::lol::cool::cool:
     
    planks, Nicks classic and sc0ut like this.
  2. ausmatt

    ausmatt Senior Member

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    Good rant. I agree.
    Matt.
     
  3. paulygates

    paulygates Senior Member

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    I have never played one either. Or a reissue for that matter. I have heard it argued that its the old wood that makes the difference. The tone of the wood apparently improves with age. The guys who were making all those amazing records were using guitars that were about 10 years old, so it makes sense to have a reissue of about the same age and it should be on a par with a burst.
     
  4. shannon undery

    shannon undery Senior Member

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    You have a point.
    However many of us feel that when they were made in the 50's and 60's they were made with more care.Sure a CNC machine will always cut and route things better than a human but it's not very passionate about what it's doing now is it.The wood they use now is of top quality but many characteristics of the wood used back then is not achievable with todays woods.

    Many materials used back then are not is use today due to cost and time restraints.Many people see Gibson's today as trying to make as many as possible instead of making a higher quality guitar.Like you said,it's a rare occurence to see a 'Burst in person but how mant Historics and VOS's do you see.

    Yes pickups were made back then using winding machines which didn't have an automatic cutoff but that also means every pickup is different.I for one would love knowing my guitar is different to anyone else's.I have never heard a bad PAF anyway.

    I have played a real 'Burst,in fact I played it again along with an original 57 Goldie with all original black parts.I list it as one of the greatest experiences in my life.They didn't sound hundreds of thousands of dollars better than an historic but I don't think that's what people want one for.There's the feeling of holding a piece of history and that your playing the same guitar as your heroes.

    That and when playing those guitars I had enough wood in my pants to build ten of them!
     
  5. vivalaking

    vivalaking Senior Member

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    this is not gonna end well.
     
  6. So Relax

    So Relax Senior Member

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    Bursts cannot be replicated, end of story. Their sound will always be different and historics will not replicate that sound exactly, its impossible BUT that doesn't mean bursts are better. They are different adn what was used on some of the greatest music of all time. I have never played a burst, I do have 2 historics. No one can tell me that a burst is superior from listening to a recording or in a stage show with a band. Modern technology has taken so much character out of the sound of a guitar that its barely recognisable in some intances, compare this with the 60's/70's where it was all relatively simple.

    You cannot compare a burst and historic, but they achieve the same goals - great sounding music. Isn't that what its all about. It seems that its human nature to search for perfection - but its been here since the start of time that's why the early zep recording have that awesome tone and that tone can't be replicated - heck Slash can't even replicate the Appetite tone by his own admission. Change an amp and a room and change the tone.

    Power to the people and peace out.
     
  7. BCRGreg

    BCRGreg V.I.P. Member

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    I have.

    Nothing compares.
     
  8. ellem52

    ellem52 Senior Member

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    I have played a real 59 burst. The owner is a moderately famous singer/guitarist and collects old Gibsons. In his studio I played his 59 he played my main stage guitar a 90 Standard. I'm well aware the 90s weren't pinnacle years for Gibson. The one they built on 05/02/1990 is the shit. Randy and I were laughing like kids after a few minutes of swapping the two guitars back and forth. I paid 850USD from Sam Ash for mine and he'd paid around 80,000USD and frankly mine was better. It just was. It played better, it sounded better and it was a touch lighter - and my LP is heavy.

    He pulled out a Custom Shop he'd had made for him. It looked like every ebony LP you've ever seen but the headstock was huge and had a brass plate on the back. That guitar blew mine away.

    Is my guitar ever going to be worth 80K? Prolly not and his is probably worth over 200,000K now. However I honestly would not trade MY Les Paul for HIS Les Paul even though I could probably buy 50 Custom Shop Les Pauls with the proceeds.

    Here's the thing to consider. WHY do you think a 59 (etc) LP is the Holy Grail of Guitars? Probably because Jimmy Page played one. Guess what? His wasn't original. He modified it quite a bit. Why? It wasn't good enough as it was. Think about it.
     
  9. jack briggs

    jack briggs Senior Member

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  10. single cut 54

    single cut 54 V.I.P. Member

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    I have ,I 'm restoring a '58 at the moment,but the most famous one I've played is Gary Moores ''Stripe''.It seemed to sound better when Gary Played it than when I played it,don't quite know why that should be.Ha Ha
     
  11. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    Zeppelin One was recorded ENTIRELY with a single coil FENDER TELECASTER ??
     
  12. Lefty Elmo

    Lefty Elmo Senior Member

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    I've played plenty of 50s Gibsons. Go to one of the big guitar shows and there are lots of dealers who'll let you play one. Take a trip to Rumbleseat Music in Ithaca, NY, and you can play anything in the store. I saw one of the guys hand the $400K Skinner Burst to a thirteen year old kid.
    To address the topic, I'm a lefty player. I owned a 1954 goldtop lefty, I also spent a fair amount of time with the lefty 1959 burst currently owned by John MacEnroe. Also, one of my closest friends owns two 50s Les Paul standards (both righty) Pick up an original, then an Historic, and while the Historics are great, there is no mistaking one for an original. The most obvious difference is the FEEL of the neck. Why Gibson doesn't get this right, just completely baffles me! But for all the magic, real and imagined, I do believe that there are Historics that rival or even surpass the originals. The MacEnroe Burst, is an uninspiring guitar to play, simply, it is nothing special. My 54 goldtop however, was all that is great about vintage guitars. It had that almost indefineable quality which a new guitar can't quite get. My Rossington gets about 85% of it, and certainly exceeds the MacEnroe Burst, but every time I pick up my friend's goldtop or burst, you know that these guitars are in another league.
     
  13. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    HERE HERE .I believe your statements to be the closest to honesty you will get here .Some originals were pure shit and others were magical .A lot like today:hmm::hmm:
     
  14. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    Well ??? Tell us what you thought about it ???:rolleyes:
     
  15. plaintop

    plaintop Member

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    I've played a few, and nothing on the planet compares to a good 'burst. It's a very different thing with vintage compared to modern in general.
     
  16. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    :slap:...bonanza,thank you for your profound wisdom.
     
  17. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    I never tried to compare an original to a historic .I believe Historics are a lot better than originals in general ,even some regular off the shelf les Pauls are better than originals as stated in another post and the better aftermarket electronics available also make them superior:lol::lol::laugh2::laugh2::thumb::applause::rolleyes::hmm::thumb:
     
  18. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    Someones got to stir the pot around here :lol::lol::lol:
     
  19. bonanza2252003

    bonanza2252003 Senior Member

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    I challenge you to a blindfold test !!!!!! Lets make it happen !!! Who's got a couple of real bursts ???.I challenge all who say they will pick out the original blindfolded.I call BULL SHIT !!!!!!!!They may feel a little different from 50 years of aging but I'm betting they do not sound better !!!!:cool::cool: But you can only listen to them no touching !
     
  20. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    ...IMO stirring the pot is fine,however since you have not ever played one,your opinions on the matter have left you open to some serious flaming and accusations of trolling.
     

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