New Information About Gibson's Lack of Quality Control

Discussion in 'Gibson Les Pauls' started by edselman, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. truckermde

    truckermde Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,813
    Likes Received:
    14,595
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    There are much better Les Paul Replicas available than the Les Paul Replicas being sold by the investment bankers currently in possession of the legal rights to exploit the name, designs, and legacy of the actual company & people who gave us the Les Paul in the first place.

    Of course there are lots of great current Gibby examples out there, but it's laughable at best to consider them to be a premium guitar manufacturer in the same league as PRS.

    They sell nostalgia. But I buy musical instruments.
     
  2. Norton

    Norton Senior Member

    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    426
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    It’s an easy fix. Pay your people that are MAKING the guitars. And don’t make speed the metric by which success is measured.

    Also...Henry, get the f**k out of the process.

    You have long been the driving force behind the “problem”.
     
    FreewayJam, ta6rma and endial like this.
  3. Norton

    Norton Senior Member

    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    426
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    You know. That prs post is spot on.

    I’ll never buy a prs, Or play one out. Totally not my comfort zone. But they sure make ‘em right. And mr Smith should be celebrated along with Joel dantzig, dean Zelinski and bill Collings and bob Taylor for their major contributions to pushing the design and guitar production envelope forward.

    It’s not like building awesome guitars is impossible. You just need to focus on building awesome guitars...and not photo ops with slash and douche bag watches.
     
  4. brianbzed

    brianbzed Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    1,191
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Been fortunate to have all keepers with my recent ( 2013-14 ) Les Pauls, except one. No finish or fret flaws. My Wino red had an intermittant neck pickup. Too bad, because this guitar played and sounded better than average... Took it back to GC ( and they have a very good luthier/repairman there....I know, the exception to the rule!) had the switch replaced but that didn't solve the problem. The luthier guy said they had a run of Gibsons with screwed up electronics come through. Ended up exchanging the instrument for another Wino that was shipped in from Seattle.
    I guess Gibson QC is just a sad reality of life.....but it doesn't lessen my love for a good Les Paul!!
     
    endial and RustyNuts like this.
  5. captainbraindamage

    captainbraindamage V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    2,816
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    I had Sweetwater do the same. Sent me a different Epi from the one I ordered because the first one didn't pass their inspection.
     
  6. Dave_W

    Dave_W Senior Member

    Messages:
    805
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    The actual company and people who gave us the Les Paul in the first place was a conglomerate (CMI) which was in the possession of the legal rights to exploit the name, designs, and legacy of Orville Gibson and the original Gibson company.

    But I get your point, and I agree.
     
    truckermde likes this.
  7. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

    Messages:
    76,014
    Likes Received:
    186,252
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    lol, with a build-up like that, it's bound to go quickly. :laugh2::laugh2:
     
    jeggz, powerslide and guitarjoem like this.
  8. guitarforhire

    guitarforhire Junior Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    As someone that works in a music store and sells both Gibsons and Fenders, I can tell you that we spend more time fixing and adjusting Fenders then we do Gibsons.
     
  9. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

    Messages:
    76,014
    Likes Received:
    186,252
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Out of curiosity, what are the problems you typically see in each brand?
     
    northernguitarguy and endial like this.
  10. guitarforhire

    guitarforhire Junior Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    With Fenders, we've had to do everything from grounding them, to replacing pickups, to the usual neck adjustments and having to replace necks. For the most part, the Gibsons need a neck tweak.....
     
    endial and Thumpalumpacus like this.
  11. truckermde

    truckermde Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,813
    Likes Received:
    14,595
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    You're definitely right to point that out.

    I know that, and I don't really say it right. It's just that it was under the Chicago helm that Gibson made the products I know and love.

    But it does kinda squash half my point that CMI was much the same thing that Henry Inc. is. I just like the stuff they did better...

    I wonder how many years will go by before some of Henry's changes/develpoments will be considered in the same light as Mr. McCarty's?
     
  12. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

    Messages:
    76,014
    Likes Received:
    186,252
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Interesting to hear, thanks for the reply.

    I think the only thing that will stand the test of time is weight-relief, now that the heavy=sustain thing has been put to bed.
     
    truckermde likes this.
  13. paruwi

    paruwi Kraut-Rocker Super Mod Premium Member

    Messages:
    20,271
    Likes Received:
    27,291
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Never.....
     
  14. truckermde

    truckermde Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,813
    Likes Received:
    14,595
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    That's what I was thinking, but I was just trying to seem magnanimous...
     
    paruwi likes this.
  15. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Gold Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    26,614
    Likes Received:
    121,360
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    As an old retired Post CSM decades back preached to our solid state systems class daily, "Expect what you inspect."

    Later years in various positions I've held, I followed that mantra. The focus was on the problems, not the people. Fix the problems immediately. Find out WHY the problem exists. Prevent the problems from occurring ever again... If the problems persist, then it is 'people time' but address the problems first and respect your people.

    Going full spider monkey on everybody on every problem doesn't fix crap, just pisses folks off....

    Someone has to spot the issue and someone has to address the issue directly like a laser.

    I wonder if Head Cheeze ever roams the plant and inspects anything....


    I would imagine that not much happens that PRS or JS don't know about in their respective plants... I just don't see any issues with either of their guitars...

    That's what effective mgt is paid to do...
     
  16. dspelman

    dspelman Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,098
    Likes Received:
    6,142
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Gibsons are no more "hand built" than any other production electric guitar. Dunno where that myth came from, but it should be quashed. Crap is crap, and not to be "cherished." When a high-priced manufacturer puts out instruments that aren't as good, by objective inspection, as guitars a tenth their price, there's no "charm" there, and complaints are legitimate.

    Furthermore, "hand built" should have less issues, not more. Tom Prisloe, near Ithaca, NY, builds classical guitars for concert guitarists, one at a time, without CNC machines. Those guitars are not only amazing tonally, but they're also perfection physically. I have a few handbuilt guitars (again, no CNC machining) that were perfect when they arrived. Handbuilt by a craftsman is a lot different from slapped together by task-oriented production workers. And that latter is what you get at the Gibson Factory.

    Gibsons have issues in part because they ARE production guiltars, and because management is on workers to keep production rates high, and because tolerances on guitars under $3500 are a lot looser than they are on guitars over that amount.
     
  17. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Senior Member

    Messages:
    76,014
    Likes Received:
    186,252
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    That's right. Attention to detail, without humiliating subordinates. Solid mgmt practice.
     
    edselman and ehb like this.
  18. laterider

    laterider Senior Member

    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    493
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Myth comes from guys like me, just something about these guitars puts me in a zone when playing one... I'm obviously in denial on aspects of production here and I just want to enjoy playing one but I also did suggest if you don't like don't buy.
    On another topic my job involves efforts that get realized by a separate production dept and some useful info here to remind those mgrs of!
     
    endial likes this.
  19. LP Bob

    LP Bob Senior Member

    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    I agree with the Gibson QC issues on recent guitars, the catch is the LP's still sound and look so good, so the QC issues are frustrating, especially for the steep price. Thankfully I got lucky with a new back then 2009 LP Trad Pro that I played in GC. I went in looking for another PRS (have a 1992 CE-24 that I bought new after seeing Alex Lifeson with it), but I luckily stumbled across this particular LP Trad Pro Cherry burst while there. I ended up comparing it to 10 others axe's, Strats, PRS $3,500 SC250 and SC245's, PRS Mira, Starlet, 5 other LP's, chambered, not chambered, Dean, etc, and this Trad Pro gave me a sonic and visceral hard-on the others didn't, through Marshall and Mesa's in-store. It just feels, sounds, and looks right. I got lucky as I was able to play it in person, online guitar purchasing can be tricky.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  20. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Gold Supporter Premium Member

    Messages:
    26,614
    Likes Received:
    121,360
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    I personally don't care if a CNC is involved.
    A CNC cuts wood, it doesn't build the damn guitar.
    'Hand cut is better than CNC cut' is complete bullshit.
    Machinist does his job right and the operator does theirs right, all will be consistent.
    Consistent means all the same, deviation is almost nonexistent, perfect clones....

    A hand cut neck/body and a CNC cut neck/body are still just necks and bodies...
    It's what the builder does with the chunks of wood that gives em da mojo...


    The last mile is all hand.
    It's the last mile that makes the difference.
    It's the last mile that makes it magic or chipper food....
    It's the last mile that defines the builder as far as their focus.
    It's the last mile that will elevate a builder above the status quo into the spotlight.
    It's the last mile that can bust a builder's reputation and status from Elvis, down to Esteban.

    It's the last mile that can put your silly ass out of bidness....
     

Share This Page