New Information About Gibson's Lack of Quality Control

Discussion in 'Gibson Les Pauls' started by edselman, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. diogoguitar

    diogoguitar Junior Member

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    If the finish is flawed, I can imagine how things we don't easily see are flawed (fretboard radius, neck alignment).
     
  2. Bartman

    Bartman Member

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    C3617643-E9FD-4513-A976-24B91D38284A.jpeg I ordered one from Sweetwater a few weeks ago. A 2018 traditional. Had to send it back a week later. I saw the flaw but kept telling myself it was just a bad spot in the clear. I seen as soon as I opened it. All I could remember reading was the checks that they do to prevent this. Not saying they don’t, and enjoyed doing business with them and will continue to buy from them. But it was very stressful receiving a 2500 dollar guitar and really liking the top knowing from the minute you opened it, it was probably going back. And I blame Gibson, not Sweetwater. I looked and looked for a replacement but did not see anything I even wanted. Lucked up and bought a very nice used one a day before I sent it back. That kept me from really stressing out being without a guitar for a week and being disappointed with its replacement. The crack was not evident at first . Just a bad spot in the clear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
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  3. w666

    w666 Senior Member

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    Two words..."Heritage Guitar"
     
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  4. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    This looks like a fretboard crack/fissure from the neck, other than that crack in the finish (which is probably not just finish). This in the picture it's not a production flaw, its a trauma. More likely one of the guys working for the courier.
     
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  5. tokairic

    tokairic Member

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    We always jump to say their QC is at a new low but I think its just a near constant over the years and something we have just learned to deal with. If we want it to get better we need to all rebel, stop buying, and then be prepared to pay PRS prices...[/QUOTE]

    Gibson QC is a pretty bad constant - PRS on the other hand have excellent QC, and you obviously haven't noticed that Gibson guitars are already similar prices to PRS.
    Look at the S2 range compared to mid range Gibsons and the Gibson Customs can cost more than a PRS Wood Library guitar...........
     
  6. tokairic

    tokairic Member

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    Slightly off the subject but relevant to QC and maybe similar to what may be happening at Gibson - I worked as a Customer Service Manager for a large engineering firm, making vehicle exhausts. Part of my remit was to monitor exhaust system failures and report to the CEO. My reports were constantly ignored and the common exhaust system failures continued. The CEO was of the opinion that it was more cost effective to replace failed units than to change the production methods or materials.
    The reputation of the company was trashed as a result of the failures and this resulted in loss of sales and bankruptcy. Sounds to me just like Gibson under Henry.
    (Fortunately for me I had left by this point and started my own business).
     
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  7. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    I am sure that PRS, TA, JS, etc. have guitars with gigs on occasion...

    Shit happens...and those companies employees/equipment/etc. aren't perfect.

    The major difference IMO is that those folks' guitars never make it even close to the shipping stage....they either get a redo or meet the woodchipper...

    THAT in itself makes them perfect. You never see imperfect, thus they are perfect...


    Meanwhile in Nash:

    "Nobody will notice that...."
     
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  8. ACEit

    ACEit Senior Member

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    On my last 2017 trad T seems that the employee who make the slot in the saddles and placed the cavity covers was EXTREMELY cross-eyed.
    They are WAY out any acceptable margin of error...
    but luckily enough all the remaining is spot on, no flaws in lacquer, bindins etc. even frets and fretboard is better finished that the one on my 2016 HP...and the guitar sound super.
    So I decided it's a keeper...
    one more thing... this guitar tone is pretty "dark".. while I was trying different caps I try to connect the pickups directly to the amplifier and I get a clearer and "more open" sound... so just to make some experience I try some cts pots I have around.. ( I made dozens of wirings. .it's not just a matter of pots value..)
    stock gibsons are around 510/515 k ... cts are selected 500k ( I measured both with a multimeter)..
    well.. with cts pots the sound open up almost to the level of the direct connection between HB and AMP....
    The last bit was due to the quality of the cable that goes from the pots to the selector and back... connecting through a higher section/quality cable made a difference indeed.
    For now I leaved all as stock because I find out I like the "darker" tone... and I have other guitars/options when I want a sharper LP... but the above means that quality of wiring parts is not the best... at least....
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  9. JMon

    JMon Senior Member

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    Here you go, case in expletive filled point. Just opened a brand new, factory sealed, untouched 2017 LP Tribute T. Looks freakin sweet! Wait...WTF is that? Are you kidding me? This is what Gibson has become. Yes, that is a huge finish blem. How does that get past QC? Even sent me a picture of the guitar on the inspectors bench. It's like a bad joke. BTW, fret ends are sharper than on my POS Epiphone P90 Special that cost $119.
    les paul t blem in case.jpg les paul t blem.jpg
     
  10. Martins LP

    Martins LP Member

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    Where are you looking for the blemish? All I can see is wood grain.
     
  11. JMon

    JMon Senior Member

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    Are you kidding? That's not a reflection to the left of the bridge pickup, that's a blem. Looks like it was sanded.
     
  12. ACEit

    ACEit Senior Member

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    On the above post I stated that I measured also the original pots... Actually I measured only tone ..
    As today I changed the crap "hair thin" cable connecting pots and toggle I take a chance to measure also the volume one.... and... guess what.... they are 300k ( 319k and 311k to be accurate )
    Now I understand why it plays so dark...
    As by gibson site 2017 traditional should have 500k vol pots...

    :wtf:

    BTW .. swapping the cable to and from the toggle really made a tiny improvement ... just a bit more "presence" and "dynamics"... I don't know how to better describe... not the usual "it seems I removed a blanket".... but for shure an audible difference.
     
  13. Martins LP

    Martins LP Member

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    What that white patch? I assumed it was a reflection as I couldn’t see it in your first pic. If that’s a sanding mark that’s absolutely shocking.

    I bought my tribute (identical to yours) online and I was really worried what the grain would be like, I was so relieved when I unzipped the case and found it had a really attractive grain, then I plugged it in and the neck pickup didn’t work. Mine also has a chip under the pick guard where the nut has rubbed. Fortunately I could fix the pickup and it plays great with no fret issues so I’ve accepted it for what it is.

    Since then I’ve discovered this thread and realised that Gibson aren’t quite the quality brand that I thought they were. They clearly make great guitars but they need to take more care over QC. Perhaps they should send some guys to Epiphone for some advice?!
     
  14. JMon

    JMon Senior Member

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    Yeah brother, that white patch! I was floored man. It looks like it was sanded with 800 grit paper. I can’t even wrap my head around anyone missing that in inspection. It is not visible head on as you see in the picture that has the soft case in it. But at an angle, bam! It is loud and proud. They used to make awesome guitars, and for the most part, they are still awesome, just don’t expect a quality fit and finish. That statement to me is atrocious(to not expect quality fit and finish). I am still stunned. I think it is a cry for help from the employees. Things must be really bad there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  15. Pesh

    Pesh Senior Member

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    I've sadly come across some recent examples of this myself, thankfully not after buying something. I got an email from a big UK distributor that was advertising some guitars they had from a limited Les Paul Studio Pro in a nice blue shade.

    However a few of their selection had some aspects against them. This is the worst offender...it's like they didn't try to line these up...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Pesh

    Pesh Senior Member

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    The other example is something I saw on the recently-released Player Plus line. I apologise now if you think I'm whinging about nothing, but if this was coming out of my company I'd be very unhappy.

    I had done some marking on the photos myself when I got bored, hence the scruffy notes...

    F'board inlays and how they're placed in relation to the frets:
    [​IMG]

    Binding finish, which is harder to see in this, but it's rough on the edges and not flush with the fretboard:
    [​IMG]

    The last shot shows the quality of the finish; orange-peel texture on the satin finish. My '14 Studio has the same finish but is silky smooth.

    The pickups also look cheaply made IMO; rough finishing and taping up; the bobbins had scuffed and chipped edges:

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. JMon

    JMon Senior Member

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    I think I have exactly the same issue. This guitar sounds dark. It is still articulate, not muddy at all, just dark, like the tone is rolled back. I need to check my pots. I even started a thread on this issue, thinking it might be the 490s. Who has a Gibson Les Paul and a Gibson SG?
     
  18. Subterfuge

    Subterfuge Senior Member

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    No excuse for this kind of "I don't give a crap" attitude ... it starts at the top and filters down to the men on the line .... shameful
     
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  19. JMon

    JMon Senior Member

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  20. Guitpicky

    Guitpicky Senior Member

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    I have to admit it was threads like these that made me a little skeptical when I bought my first and only Gibson Les Paul (2016 Standard T) last year. I bought it from a private dealer/collector friend of mine brand new and when I got it home I proceeded to go thru every aspect of it with a fine tooth comb. I checked for every defect and flaw in this thread and more and found none.

    The fit on all mating parts was tight and perfectly aligned, the finish was flawless and setup was right on to factory specs. Tuning out of the box was only a few cents off and the intonation was perfect. It even stays in tune, contrary to a lot of the criticism I've heard about tuning issues.

    It has the binding over the fret ends but there are no gaps between the "nibs" and the frets anywhere and the edges are all nice and smooth. All the fretboard inlays are precisely cut and centered exactly between the frets AND sides of the fretboard.

    The wood selection is a very high grade with beautiful figure and color. Both the top and back are so perfectly bookmatched that you can't even tell they're two pieces. It really does give the impression that someone took pride in their craftsmanship.

    It's not that I don't believe the horror stories, but I sure didn't get one. It's a wonderful guitar in both form and function and I'm really happy with everything about it. Looks great, sounds great, plays great.

    It's a limited edition with a mahogany top instead of maple, but not a custom. I don't know if that makes any difference, since it was made in the same factory as all the maple top LP Standards.

    Either I got stupendously lucky, or Gibson is still making far more good guitars than bad ones :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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