new I bought Frank's XiTone day

Discussion in 'Amp Modeling' started by mdubya, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. matthew bear

    matthew bear Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    4,330
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Frank, I may cave in soon, but again, it's hard to understand why it is necessary. A pole is a bit less costly to experiment with.
     
    mdubya likes this.
  2. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    14,151
    Likes Received:
    12,293
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    All you need to consider a change is already written in this thread by someone that has both speaker systems. I think what happens a lot of times when we shop for things is we settle for the items that cost less thinking that it's all the same. It's not
     
    AmpedUp and mdubya like this.
  3. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,007
    Likes Received:
    22,228
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    I will try to have some demos by the end of the day. I keep getting interrupted and haven't been able to do anything yet.

    It is funny, I have the 2204 and the Champ sitting right here, now. Both sound great, but the AX8 has so many good sounding options at the tap of the foot or a quick turn of a dial...and it has great sounds that the Champ and the 2204 can't quite do...it really is pretty damn cool.

    I keep thinking about some of the questions; can it get such and such tone, exactly? Can it nail this, that or the other thing? :hmm: Those are good questions, but the point is, it nails GREAT tones, whether exact or not. The tones are more than good enough that A/B-ing becomes a moot point.

    I have no doubt that if I posted clips and stated, "check out this great Vox tone" or "listen to my Suhr Badger demo" or "this is a great old Marshall plexi tone" that no one would say, "that sounds digital" or "that sounds like a modeler, not the real thing."
     
    AmpedUp and matthew bear like this.
  4. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,007
    Likes Received:
    22,228
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Matt, your demos sound great. If the QSC's are working for you, there is no need to change. They weren't on my list because they were too close in price to making the XiTone commitment. I was looking for an inexpensive solution to hold me over in the meantime. Then I encountered the salesman that made the price come closer to the Alto I was looking at. Between your demos and the salesman's enthusiasm for the QSC vs. the Alto, I was sold.

    Pop has been very supportive regarding the QSC, too. By the time Frank offered me his XiTone, I had just about sorted the QSC. Yes, I am happier with the XiTone, but I support your joy with the QSC's. And Pop's, too! He loves his QSC's.

    It may be my room or my setup that is the problem. Certainly, what I don't like might go away if I could play just a little bit louder.

    And the QSC is still getting some use; between running stereo and running my looper through the QSC while running guitar through the XiTone, the QSC still has a place. Not to mention using it for others to play through.
     
  5. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,007
    Likes Received:
    22,228
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    OK, here it is. I would like to hear your thoughts and comments before adding my own.

    AX8 with QSC K8. Top Boost model as I have it saved. Stock reverb setting, Volume on 10, aka dimed non master volume. SG Classic used with the volume on the bridge pickup rolled down to ~3, as you would with an nmv amp, dimed.



    AX8 with XiTone. Everything else exactly as above.



    It took a few tries to get things close between the 2 monitors volume wise and camera/mic distance. PITA. :lol: :p

    **Questionable playing/tuning/stray noises at no additional charge to you!**
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
    AmpedUp, matthew bear and frankv like this.
  6. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    14,151
    Likes Received:
    12,293
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    The volumes don't match with the QSC being louder.

    Your earlier description was right on. The XiTone is way clearer. More natural sounding. No boosted bass response or mids like I hear with the QSCs. Accurate flat response tone.
     
    AmpedUp, saks and mdubya like this.
  7. matthew bear

    matthew bear Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    4,330
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Thanks M!

    :hmm: Well, neither one was bad, just a bit different... horses for courses!

    I can definitely hear the mud you're talking about there, but I don't have that issue (perhaps my patches are brighter). for now I'll just stick to my guns and rock these QSC's, but I can see an advantage in the xitone for certain purposes.
     
    AmpedUp and mdubya like this.
  8. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,007
    Likes Received:
    22,228
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    So, what I hear:
    1. The QSC sounds better in this recording than it did when I first got it. Laying it on its side reduced the woofiness that bothered me so much (the pvc jug tone whistling from the bass ports). And I spent a lot of time dialing in the presets to sound better with the QSC. FWIW-QSC says explicitly to not use the monitor laying on its side in this way. I am going to get a pole for it if I keep it (I probably will).
    2. There is a lot more of all frequencies coming through the XiTone; Treble, Middle, and Bass. If the QSC was isolated, it would sound even more muffled because (I think) the acoustic sound coming from the guitar is filling in mids and treble in the recordings. With the XiTone, you can hear a lot more of the amplified treble and middle coming through, clearly.
    3. You can hear the potential of the QSC. Maybe I got a bad one? But I hear similar things in that demo with the Engle and the Line 6 monitor and the QSC K10.
    4. I hope this demonstrates the ability for a modeler to sound like a "real" amp. I didn't go for best tone, just plugged in and went for it. I used the SG Classic because that is relevant to matthew bear, and because it is an awesome guitar which sounds great, too.
     
    AmpedUp, frankv and matthew bear like this.
  9. matthew bear

    matthew bear Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    4,330
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    the QSC has definitely sounded darker in most comparisons I've heard (compared to some other PA type speakers) but the Xitone was a brand new perspective sonically. thanks for posting those up!

    It's amazing how much bass comes out of these little buggers...
     
    AmpedUp and mdubya like this.
  10. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    14,151
    Likes Received:
    12,293
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Yeah, it's the artificial Bass boost that is the problem when playing guitar through that speaker matt. They are over compensating for the fact that its a small speaker. This is why Mike says it's like taking the blanket off the speaker cab when he hears Xitone.

    All that said. If you and others are happy with QSC.. Then by all means.. Carry on brother..
     
    saks, AmpedUp and matthew bear like this.
  11. ttbit

    ttbit Senior Member

    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    330
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    The two sound very different through my monitors. First recording sounded much more boxy. 2nd one much more natural. I was hearing more of the guitar and less of the speaker box itself, if that makes sense. It probably wouldn't be so bad without the A/B comparison.

    I agree with the "blanket off the speaker cab" statement, just judging from this one comparison.

    I still have the Alto TS210, so what can I say. :)
     
    AmpedUp, frankv and mdubya like this.
  12. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    12,606
    Likes Received:
    15,908
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    I think the QSC in the vid could be tweaked in the model/preset to be clearer.
     
    frankv likes this.
  13. cybermgk

    cybermgk Singin' the body lectric Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    12,606
    Likes Received:
    15,908
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    DEFINATELY like the Xitone over that QSC. As mentioned, I think you could tweak the patch to compensate. But now you know why Frank says he doesn't fiddle much with his presets. It's because they sound so good through the Xitone.

    Interesting to point out, you can hear the actual guitar in the recordings, strings being hit. So, it couldn't have been very loud.

    It would be interesting to hear the same a/b at volume too. I suspect the QSC opens up a little at volume. Xitone, I know, sounds just as sweet at volume.
     
    frankv, mdubya and AmpedUp like this.
  14. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,007
    Likes Received:
    22,228
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    1. The preset I used for my demo is a QSC optimised preset. I did lots of tweaking for the QSC (part of my frustration with it). It is possible that someone could have done a better job than I, however, I was at the point where I was not getting improvements.

    2. I experienced the same qualities at slightly louder volumes. Much louder and I encountered other undesirable problems that would have required even more tweaking and saved presets for those volumes.

    a. I am simply not in a situation to experiment at any louder volumes.

    b. My personal reasons for modeling revolve almost exclusively around low volume and I cannot give much in the way of gigging volume commentary.

    c. Through headphones, I could/can hear the models clearly and they sound fantastic. I did/do not want to compromise that. I do understand headphones vs. live in the room sound will differ, but even the lowly Mustang I sounded great in the room (for my purposes) and even more impressive through headphones. I miss the simplicity of the Mustang, at times.

    I don't mean to malign the QSC. Just reporting my experiences.

    I am tempted to reset the AX8 to defaults and start over with the XiTone. However, I am perfectly happy as is.

    ********

    If Fractal wanted to create the perfect @mdubya modeler, they would build a low to mid volume combo, optimised for use with their speaker of choice, allowing the use of an AX8 style foot switch, with line out capabilities for FOH, PA speaker monitoring, and headphones. The models are there, as we all know. In other words, combine the high end qualities of the Fractal modeling line with the usability of the Fender Mustang line.

    I often wonder how things would sound in the room with the cabinet miking disabled. I don't want to model recording mics, just speaker emulation for "in the room" sound. Shouldn't a greenback cabinet with no mic sound like a greenback cabinet coming through the XiTone?

    This is where modeling improvements will come. We are not all sound engineers and recording musicians.

    Fractal was developed as a studio tool. Now let's have a live sound component that is more focused. This is how they can/will appeal to those who perceive high end modeling to be too complex.

    *******

    I have often thought a company like Fender could do this more easily since they rely on many different lines to generate profits. Since Fractal relies on one small specialty market, they cannot make things more affordable to appeal to a broader audience.
     
    matthew bear, AmpedUp and frankv like this.
  15. matthew bear

    matthew bear Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    4,330
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    I'm in complete agreement that a premium combo should exist... I'd not be too surprised if line 6 had something like that coming down the pike :hmm:
     
    mdubya likes this.
  16. matthew bear

    matthew bear Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    4,330
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    By the way M, have you tried EQ's post amp in place of a cab or IR? there are some interesting video's on youtube about using this method. I believe it's called the OTB method... heres a video comparing the EQ vs anIR, vs the modeled cab.




    It also frees up DSP, so you can do parallel outs, Like a cab in parallel with the OTB EQ... it can give a nice complexity to your tone, possibly giving a better "amp in the room" feel.
     
    mdubya likes this.
  17. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,007
    Likes Received:
    22,228
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    I will look into this.

    I am pretty much perfectly happy right now. I smile everytime I sit down to play. Last night, instead of struggling with trying to improve clarity, I was experimenting with synth sounds and adding tremolo to the JTM45 and scrolling through OD options and dialing in reverbs etc...

    As I posted in my full r*t*rd thread, I have my 2204 and my Champ here, now, too. Other than playing my 330 through the Champ for some glorious dry, clean tones for a few minutes one day, I haven't touched either one, which surprises even me. After playing the Champ, I just switched back to the AX8 and dialed up Princeton and Super Reverb and Twin and Deluxe tones with infinitely more options (tremolo, reverb, drives, etc...) and never looked back. The 330 is a little bit loose and wild for the AX8, so I tend to play it through the Champ which absorbs more of the stray loose and wild sounds coming from the 330.

    Even with outboard pedals (I have another arriving today), I just find a model the pedal works with and use the AX8.

    I am going to get a tripod soon and I will post more demos when I do.
     
    matthew bear and frankv like this.
  18. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    14,151
    Likes Received:
    12,293
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    You are touching onto something here. When you get into this type of equipment.. All of a sudden it all becomes completely transparent and you start to focus on "other things". Playing, writing and creating music... and not tone chasing anymore because you have all the tools you will even need right there in front of you with Fractal
     
    mdubya likes this.

Share This Page