Need info on LP jr neck mortise

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by Jmorris, May 19, 2012.

  1. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    I'm looking for some specifics on an LP jr mortise and tenon. There's loads of DC plans, but not SC. From pics of a jr, I can see the neck and cutaway area don't make a smooth transition. Is the fretboard more narrow at the heel than a standard? It seems as though it would have to be. I know the neck tenon follows the full taper of the fretboard. I just can't figure out what's up with the gap inbetween the fretboard and the cutaway.
     
  2. emoney

    emoney Senior Member

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    MRJ did a Jr. SC build not long ago and documented it in a thread. Might search for that
    and see, because I know there was a lot of discussion about the tenon/mortise.
     
  3. vilered1

    vilered1 Junior Member

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    I saw a '56 at a shop the other day and that gap was there. I'm building 2 now and the template kit is set up for the same gap for the single cut. I'm not in front of it right now but if I recall it's just that the tail end of the pocket is rounded a bit and the end of the neck has sharp corners. the pick guard covers it. -WARNING- here comes an opinion- I think that's just how their machines were set up at the time. the pocket just looks pretty much like one on a Fender. you just gotta either angle the neck pocket or the end of the neck. might be kinda nice because you could in theory be a little less exacting in the dimensions of the neck pocket, cover the gap with the pick guard and make up small differences with your bridge and saddle placement. the neck taper at the end isn't reduced. glue the board on, cut the taper, mill the pocket to match.
     
  4. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    I just took some measurement (with my not the best digital caliper, but close enough) from my Bartlett plans. I get approx 53.50mm at the 16th fret. That puts the edge of the fretboard lined up with the top portion of the cutaway. With that so, how do you get that space between the fretboard and cutaway without reducing the fretboard taper at some point?
     
  5. Barnaby

    Barnaby Premium Member

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    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the OP is not asking about the end of the tenon, but rather the right side, where there is a lip between the fingerboard and the edge of the cutaway, unlike an LP Standard.

    I'd assume that's simply a slightly different cutaway shape...

    ...but maybe I'm wrong about the OP's post. If so, carry on. :wave:
     
  6. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    BINGO, you got it barnaby. Thats exactly what Im trying to figure out. Any reference I look at doesnt mention a difference in body shape between a jr vs a standard. However I hadent considered that, that just may be the case. I hope not. Ive already completed the body shaping.
     
  7. vilered1

    vilered1 Junior Member

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    ok gotcha! I think what is going on with this vs the arch top is that the arch top's neck tennon is narrower than the fingerboard and it allows the fingerboard to extend out to the edge of the body... the neck is narrow where it hits the tennon and the fingerboard hangs over the sides. on the jr the neck is like a Fender, neck and fingerboard are the same width the whole way. you have to have that bit of wood there, just like a fender, to keep the neck in place.
    this is the template I am using and the pic may show you a better image of what's goin on....
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LP-Jr-Singl...662?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item35ba2d6066
     
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  8. vilered1

    vilered1 Junior Member

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    I had a heck of a time figuring out the construction until I got the template. I even drove 3 hours in a storm to get this old flying v neck off a guy so I could the neck tennon as a jig.... then I get the template and it's totally different. now I have to build a V to justify the trip!!!!
     
  9. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    well **** me. After much more searching the forum, I found the answer I was looking for, But not the answer I wanted to hear. Apparently there is a difference between the cutaway of a jr vs a standard. On a jr theres a bit more "meat" left in the cutaway to allow for that lip area inbetween the fretboard and body. Shit shit shit shit shit shit shit.
     
  10. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    Alright folks. I need suggestions. What can I do with this guitar body besides turning into a standard? A special perhaps?
     
  11. vilered1

    vilered1 Junior Member

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    don't ya just love it when that happens?
     
  12. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    I supposed I could just do it with a tenon like a carved top, but have no neck angle and a slightly recessed TOM bridge? I don't know much about this stuff.
     
  13. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    Uhhhh, NO!
     
  14. slapshot

    slapshot Senior Member

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    resize your neck tenon so the fingerboard will overlap the top?
    won't have that visual extra bit on the cutaway but the construction method will be the same.
    if i understand it now you're left with what is basically a fender style joint where the cutaway meets flush with the neck exposing 1/2 of one side?
     
  15. Barnaby

    Barnaby Premium Member

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    Maybe it could be done as a DCJR now? Not sure about the relative dimensions...
     
  16. slapshot

    slapshot Senior Member

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  17. Barnaby

    Barnaby Premium Member

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    Looks like it...:hmm:...interesting...so it must have a narrower tenon.
     
  18. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    It's looks as though the cutaway area meets the fretboard near the 18th fret vs going up to the 16th fret. I'm was planning on doing a clear finish and I don't know that I could make that transition very pleasing to the eye.
     
  19. slapshot

    slapshot Senior Member

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    burst it then :thumb:
    we need some pictures of your ****up I think.
     
  20. Jmorris

    Jmorris Senior Member

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    The only **** up was shaping the body like that of a standard carved top. The body itself is still completely ok, just not suitable for a vintage style jr.
     

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