Need help dating a Navigator N-LP 380

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by Desert Blues, May 30, 2015.

  1. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,619
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    #1 2005 OR 2002 as a best guess ? ... odd serial # format .. special order ?
    #2 1998 ... odd that it doesn't have a Limited model waterslide :hmm:
    .............. possibly not used on every N-LP until a few years later ?
    #3 1995
    #4 1995
    #5 1992
    #6 1995
    #7 2000
    #8 1999
    #9 2001

    I checked about 20 - 25 Navs for each serial # format and can't see any anomalies such as
    Ltd waterslides prior to 1996-97, white rear plastics outside of the range they were used in,
    or day of the month numbers higher than 30-31, month of the year higher than 12 in the 1990's
    8 digit numeric format, week of the year higher than 52 or year higher than 15 in the 2000+
    K or T prefix formats.
    Based only only Villager's three 1995 examples so far, there would have been a brief TRC change to a flat bottomed 1 screw variety in the mid 1990s before ESP returned back to the earlier 90's bell bottom style TRC again in the later 90's.

    I did find another Tanaka T prefix example besides Villager's,
    similar in format to Kiso K prefix examples.
     
  2. Desert Blues

    Desert Blues Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    371
    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Not sure I follow you exactly

    This is what I think - up until 1997 the 380 did not exist, after 1997 they came with the first version of the 380 with white plastic and the 2 screw truss rod cover. In 2000/2001 they changed to black plastic and a 1 screw truss rod.

    Before 1997 - hell knows what they were doing - but probably just the highend one off replicas.
     
  3. JDB

    JDB Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,703
    Likes Received:
    5,924
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    +1
     
    2 people like this.
  4. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,619
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    I'm using the following post to date N-LP + LPS models until something better comes along ...
    I can appreciate that opinions on portions of the post may vary.
    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-single-cuts/167868-_mij__faq_-_links-4.html#post7081869
    If you do find inconsistencies or problems, please let me know and I'll try to address them as best I can.

    As for when ESP moved from LPS-350 models to N-LP-380 models is difficult to say.
    The latest catalog I have showing Navi LPS-250 + 350 models is 1987.
    No LPS models were displayed in the 1989 catalog.

    There have been suggestions that most Les Paul models produced in the early 90's
    (and possibly the late 80's) had ESP badges, so the 1992 date for #5 above would be the one
    I have the most questions about, along with #1 .. which is a format I haven't seen other examples of.
     
  5. Desert Blues

    Desert Blues Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    371
    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Hi thanks for info

    However the 350 and the 380 are very different models, the 350 moved actually to a higher end guitar such as the 500 or 580.

    What I think happened was this- ESP decided to make a run Les Paul replicas in 1997 after they had stopped for a few years and Navigaor as a brand was dead - they didnt share exact dimensions of a real burst. ESP called these models 380 and they were a completely separate run of ESP models which had gone before. With the new 380 models ESP started to offer more models around 2000/2001 and I have all the history from this period onwards so whatever you want to know post 2000 I can tell you

    This is what has been stated on the Honey Ken site so you can check there if you dont take my word for it
     
  6. villager

    villager Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Likes Received:
    2,276
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    also you have to remember the models are prices, so 350000 yen in say 1995 is very different to 380000 in 2005, personally i think the models from the 90s are actually higher spec re wood and flame than the later 1998 and later..
     
  7. Desert Blues

    Desert Blues Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    371
    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Half me agrees but the other thinks ESP really perfected the Les Paul around 2001 so I think now with each year ESP improves and you can't get better wood than hundorus just different

    ESP Les Paul's post 2001 are incomparable and I would urge everyone to buy a n-LP post 2001... Just my opinion !

    It's risky to buy anything before this year you might be buying any old crap
     
  8. villager

    villager Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Likes Received:
    2,276
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    what is your opinion based on? you have a 380 and a 480 both post 2001, how is pre 2001 incomparable? what have you compared them with from pre 2001? have you played any pre 2001 Navigators?

    its all very well to make statements like above but please base them on some play testing so its at least a well judged opinion..

    you have no idea of the specs or wood used throughout the 90s it may well be honduran eastern maple and brazillian, there's no indication or information to say it is or is not, and really, any old crap? by Navigator? please....

    I have owned 30 odd navigators, the majority being post 97 limited models, but the earlier 90s models played and sounded just as good as the later models, and usually had better tops... all post 1990, and many of the earlier Navigators are great guitars, all hand-built, all something to be proud to own and play, so don't be dismissing things you have not tried as crap, its misinformative and misleading...you have researched some interesting information so far, if you had actually also gone and played a bunch of pre 2001 Navigators before condemning them out of hand, then i would have had more respect for your opinions and conclusions..
     
    3 people like this.
  9. Desert Blues

    Desert Blues Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    371
    Joined:
    May 10, 2014

    Hi Mark, well I have a 480 from 2012 and a 380 from 1997. In my opinion all the Navigators are good and you are right I dont have experience with the older models but I will say Navigator post 2001 seem to be producing more accurate 'Burst' replicas. The earlier models you speak of are as per the higher spec 2001 models but it would be interesting to check out the dimensions such as neck profiles etc.

    I hope soon to get some more info regarding pre 1997 ESP and Ill let you know.
     
  10. villager

    villager Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Likes Received:
    2,276
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    ah sorry, i thought your 380 was 2002. interesting you say more accurate burst replicas, in what way? because my understanding is that all the bursts were hand made and so are all slightly different... neck sizes are certainly not standardized see below, so it makes sense that body dimensions, top carve etc will also vary..

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Udonitron

    Udonitron Psychedelic Stoner Rock Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,301
    Likes Received:
    9,781
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Well I have found that the couple I own/ed were very similar in colour, flame, and grain as those in the BOTB so I think, as I previously theorized, that ESP were trying to make copies of these guitars. My 2001 was so damn close to a particular model in that book it was uncanny.
     
  12. Desert Blues

    Desert Blues Senior Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    371
    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    thats interesting!
     

Share This Page