NDGD (New Damaged Guitar Day) - Return or Keep with Discount?

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by 2manyGuitars, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

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    There are 2 luthiers in town that I would trust as far as assessing this. One works Monday to Thursday, the other is on vacation until next Tuesday. Looks like I won't get a professional opinion until next week.

    I got a chance to take it out and play it for about 20 minutes this morning. It feels awesome and I'm really digging the neck. It seems to hold tune just fine and a little "gentle pressure" on the neck (wink wink) didn't seem to have any effect.

    I guess in response to the other thread, I should rephrase the original question. Is this likely just the finish?

    I've seen a LOT of SGs with this identical crack. I've owned one for 12 years. Does anyone else have an SG (or other Gibson) with the same thing? How has it held up?

    I'll consult with the luthier and obviously, if it's anything other than cosmetic, it goes back. If it's just the lacquer, I've got no problem with it for the right price.
     
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  2. Crotch

    Crotch Members Only Premium Member

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    Another vote for send it back
     
  3. Pop1655

    Pop1655 Premium Member

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    I don't know about the guitar, but it's obvious that box had a rough trip!
     
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  4. Dolebludger

    Dolebludger Premium Member

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    You are doing the right thing to take the guitar to an experienced luthier. All I can say more that what I have is this: When I was looking for a full hollow electric, I went to a store and saw a used Epi ES 175. It looked good except that it had what the salesman called a "finish crack" right along the scarf joint not far back from the nut. It was on one side only. The neck seemed stable and no tuning problems. BUT the crack was right along the scarf joint and I therefore knew that there had been some movement at the glue joint. Though there was no present functional problem, I knew that the glue joint had been caused to move. How much, I did not know. But I did know that the movement would have compromised the glue to some unknown extent. That guitar might have been fine for another 100 years. But I knew that should there be some future accidental impact at the headstock, a break would be more likely due to the previous movement at the joint. I passed.
     
  5. fry

    fry Senior Member

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    My experiences with Zzounds have all been very positive, start to finish.
     
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  6. Dolebludger

    Dolebludger Premium Member

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    fry,
    Same here. From the condition of the shipping box, there was clearly some "trauma" in shipping -- therefore the fault of the shipper only. The slight damage to the case at the rear bout of the guitar indicates the box was dropped so as to cause the rear bout of the guitar to be driven against the case in that area. The way in which that impact damaged the neck joint could have several explanations, but by circumstantial evidence that impact did damage the neck joint to some unknown extent. I hope the OP furnishes Zzounds with the pics shown here so they can file a claim against the shipper.
     
  7. Ed B

    Ed B Senior Member

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    There ya go. I wouldn't be concerned unless it was structural. I probably would have returned it out of fear, but taking to a guy is a great idea. It may be a keeper. Good luck!
     
  8. artis_xe

    artis_xe Christopher Premium Member

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    this

    + I'm always suspicious of guitars being shipped . when I buy __ I need to be able to play the exact guitar that I'm getting . period
     
  9. Mule Train

    Mule Train Senior Member

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    That's a bummer but I'd send it back. Not a big fan of cracks on these, or any for that matter. A huge discount is a different story being you are having a pro look at it first.
     
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  10. Dolebludger

    Dolebludger Premium Member

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    artis,

    I'm with you on not liking to order a guitar to be shipped, not played by me. But unfortunately, that's the way it is in many parts of the USA, because local stores are small and don't have that much selection. As a result, I have ordered a total of 9 guitars (still have 7 of them) and none have arrived in a box and case that resembles that in the OP. What we have here is a shipping accident. To my experience, they are fairly rare, but they do happen. The "bad guy" here is the shipper (UPS or whoever). And a "huge discount" for a possibly cracked neck joint. The OP had better get a price on re-setting the neck and doing the finish work before deciding the discount is "huge".
     
  11. Bigfoot410

    Bigfoot410 Premium Member

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    Just a question. From the pics, I haven't a clue to the severity of the damage. How would a luthier assess it? X-ray? Checking total alignment of the neck and strings? Tapping on it for a rattle?

    Just curious how it could be done without tearing it apart worse than it is?
     
  12. Nippon

    Nippon Senior Member

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    I would exchange.
     
  13. twst1up

    twst1up Senior Member

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    You worked hard for that bread


    Dont settle
     
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  14. TheX

    TheX Voice of Reason

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    Must be a short tenon.
     
  15. Dolebludger

    Dolebludger Premium Member

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    Bigfoot and all,

    Not a luthier myself. I have heard of "black lighting" but don't know if that would detect a partially damaged and weakened glue joint or not. (Perhaps this thread should be moved to the luthier's sub-forum?)

    Remember, the guitar is an SG, and they have been prone to neck heel breaks sine day one -- back in 1961! That is a factor to be considered also.
     
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  16. Bobby Mahogany

    Bobby Mahogany Senior Member

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    Send it back and ask them to "crack the finish" on the other side as well.
    At least make it a "balanced" instrument.
     
  17. brokentoeswalker

    brokentoeswalker Senior Member

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    Send it back and stop being a traitor to your home country.

    JK about the traitor part
     
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  18. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

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    Hey, when all of the dust has settled, I'm going to do a thread on CITES and bringing guitars over the border.
     
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  19. parts

    parts Senior Member

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    ..only option these days..
    Go Nuclear on them..
     
  20. 2manyGuitars

    2manyGuitars Senior Member

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    UPDATE
    Got an e-mail today from Zzounds customer service;

    We apologize that you have received a damaged product. After reviewing the pictures you provided, we do not recommend keeping this item. The damage/crack in the neck could potentially get worse over time and we do not want you to be stuck with an item in this condition. We have provided return instructions below to return the item for a full refund. Let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

    Talked to customer service and there were 3 options;
    1) Return for refund
    2) Exchange for another SG
    3) Keep it with a discount (I asked about this option)

    Off the bat, the most they could discount it would be another $100. Forget option 3.
    I want this Pelham Blue SG so scratch option 1.
    Exchange it is. Since no online retailer is allowed to ship Gibson guitars to Canada, it was delivered to a US address and brought over the border by me. I asked if I would need to drive it back over and ship it from there. Normally yes but they said if I wanted to ship it from Canada, they would issue an international return authorization, I would drop it off and pay for UPS Standard and as soon as I sent them a copy of the receipt, they would issue me a refund of the shipping. Sounds fair.

    As far as the new guitar, normally once the return is scanned into the system by UPS, the new one leaves the warehouse. Because of the exception they were making with the international shipping, they said they would actually need to wait for the first one to arrive at their warehouse before sending the new one. I get that. Now, because I drove 2 hours round-trip to get it and will need to do the same thing for the second one, how 'bout a little something for my troubles? They said the cost they were covering for my shipping (about 100 bucks) eats up any wiggle room on the price. I said if I were willing to drive it back to the States and mail it from there using the prepaid UPS label, what could they do? Keep in mind that this also means my new one won't be held up a week while the return sits at customs. I eventually negotiated that I would get the $1169 brand new one for the price of the $999 blemished model.

    To be fair, the whole border/driving/shipping hassle is all on me because I'm buying a US exclusive model and getting around the shipping restrictions put in place by Gibson Canada. I'm good with the outcome. And also, the family and I were heading on a road trip tomorrow that puts me about 15 minutes from the border crossing anyway. While the wife and kids grab lunch, I'm going to slip over to the UPS store in NY state to mail the guitar.

    Hopefully, NGD thread coming soon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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