Mystery Les Paul copy identification thread

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by reborn old, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    As you say, the badge name makes it very difficult to research.
    I do recall a similar thread, but I couldn't find it.

    The last paragraph of the 1st post of this thread outlines image hosting strategies
    if you don't increase your post count to 10 posts to use MLP's image server.
    I really think posting a control cavity pic, along with other pics suggested in that 1st post,
    will improve your chances of eventually solving the guitar's provenance.

    Best of luck to you.
     
  2. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Similar thread? Is it another "vintage" brand? i can tell you, this LP is the best i ever tried. The aged SD59 sure helps.
     
  3. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Unfortunately I couldn't find close matches construction wise from any major
    Japan manufacturer, or other early references to the Vintage badge name.

    Early ESP's appear to come closest in terms of build methods used
    and quality of constuction.
    It could be just coincidence, but ESP did produce Vintage plus Tele models.

    Hopefully someone will eventually recognize it, and provide better info.

    Thanks for posting pics + best of luck with your continued search.
     
  5. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Big thanks for input. The guitar is very smooth and well sounding. Can you perhaps elaborate on how it resembles ESP and not others? It can be made outside japan, but because of age its safe to rule out china. I think i had it since 89. USA or Korea? Ill contact ESP though, seems like the best bet so far.
     
  6. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    No need to quote posts directly above yours . :)

    Similar features include:
    1-Pickup end tabs being routed in rough oval shapes without use of a template
    (Chushin Gakki also routed end tabs without templates in this way on type 3 Fresher LP's)
    2-Diagonal routed wire channel (from switch to control cavity)
    3-what appears to be an intermediate length neck tenon with a small offset towards the bass side,
    (not very clear in pics)
    4-Pots are of an early 80's Japan variety
    5-Fret edge binding + 1 piece back

    I would pull the bridge and tailpiece to see if they have Japan castings on bottoms,
    and take pics of both, if there are any, for future reference.
    I think there is a better chance of it being Japan made, based on build characteristics than anywhere else,
    and would estimate the guitar build date to be somewhere between 1978 - 1985

    What appear to be stamped numbers in the neck pickup cavity would probably be a very good clue,
    not being typically found on more commonly known Japan brands that I'm aware of. :hmm:

    Sorry, that's all I've got for you ... anyone else ?
     
  7. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hi and again thanks for the input. Sorry about quoting haha.

    Ok so i posted on another forum and here is another guys thoughts and my replies:

    Interesting guitar, thanks for posting pics.

    Though I can't pinpoint this guitar to a certain factory, I'm leaning towards late 70s Japanese made. It's a 1977/1978 Kasuga type made guitar.

    The reason I'm thinking Japanese is because of the fret edge binding and very similar build quality to known Japanese factories.
    Late 70s because of the (non visible) short tenon, the green/yellow wire colour which was often seen during the 1977-1980 period and what seems to be pre CNC routing.

    The most distinct part is the shape of the control cavity, especially the shape of the upper right lobe in the pic. I know I have seen it before, but can't remember where. I have too many pics

    The problem with the late 70s is that most Japanese factories were changing their production process, resulting in gradual changes in the way they routed their guitars.
    Also there were still many factories active and most of them produced under OEM.

    A few questions:
    1. Do the pots say 'Noble' on the side?
    2. Are those digits in the neck pickup cavity? When you are holding the guitar upside down, does it start with 77?
    3. Is the back & neck made of maho? Looks like bass wood to me??


    Super thanks for great imput. Ok, last things first, starting with your questions:

    1: Yep NOBLE15A500K
    2: Seems to be, although covered with goo so very hard to make anything out of it. Id guess those are 7's as u say.
    3: Yes it seems to be mahogany. Im no expert but wood seem very reddish and dark, even where the laquer is worn off. Also the pores are kind of big as in mahogany and the body have no lines as seem to be the case woth some basswood. But then again im no wood expert. Is there a way to tell? Top of the back of headstock have some worn off if i capped that in the pics. If not i can post a new one.

    Can you or someone possible tell anything more about it? Kasuga? Is that any good? I have never seen a "vintage" logo in any of the listings from Japanese factories, or elsewhere except for the current vintage, but they assured they did not make it.


    So, thats our conversation. Nothing branded on tailpiece vibrato or the roller bridge, but they need not be original although they might be. I had this since teenager so i did some PUP swapping for fun and looks back then. Its actually an original bridge PUP from my Ibanez RG560 from 1990 at the neck. I think i have one original PUP left and it was the bridge. No branding, metal cover with pole pieces. The SD 59 was at the neck when i got it. How are your thoughts about the wood? It sure looks like mahogany to me. I got 2 basswood guitars and they are lighter in colour. Thanks again!
     
  8. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    It would be difficult to determine the wood species without seeing it in person,
    because mahogany can have many different looks and a lot of other species resemble it.
    The larger pore grain on yours doesn't appear to be basswood to me, but I'm no expert.

    I can't figure out what all the lighter yellowish-brown patches are in pics of the neck tenon and around the control cavity lip,
    that the plastic cover rests on.
    You could try scraping down to bare wood in an inconspicuous location like inside the jack or rear switch cover plates,
    to ensure the entire back wasn't stained a darker color, before it was glued to the top.

    Hopefully, there are enough online resources for you to determine the wood species.

    I read your Tokai forum post.

    Kasuga manufactured early ESP Navigators, Burny + Fernandes RLG's,
    Conrad, Northern, Heerby + Kasuga badged LP's during late 70's to mid-late 80's

    Again, thanks for posting the many pics and info on this interesting LP.
    Someone will hopefully eventually recognise the Vintage Japan badge name, and it's history.
     
  9. Udonitron

    Udonitron Psychedelic Stoner Rock Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,255
    Likes Received:
    9,676
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    I have some pics of an old Vintage I tried bidding on years back, it was a killer looking guitar and it seems you have one too.
    Nice rare bird that, cheers for posting it.
     
  10. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Oh, can you please find and post some of those pics? Do you know anything else about this vintage brand? Same logotype as my guitar?

    Thanx
     
  11. Udonitron

    Udonitron Psychedelic Stoner Rock Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,255
    Likes Received:
    9,676
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Now that I relook, the inlay on this one looks to be done differently, could be a totally different guitar.
    Yours looks like it was done by Michael J Fox lol.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  12. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hi, thanx for the pics. I think it looks quite similar, but that one has white plastic covers in back while mine has black, the neck heel is full with on this one while mine is tapered. Bud biggest diff is of course the headstock. This says les paul and have a narrower more strict logo, while mine looks like prototype.

    Im not sure of the MJF remark, but i do have pics playing it at 18 years of age, that is 1991, if there is any doubts of its age. Thanks for input and i really hope someone can come up with some more info. Any idea where that vintage were made? I think its probably the same brand and maker, just later version the one you posted.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. vintagevintage

    vintagevintage Junior Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hiall! So, no more clues about the "Vintage" brand, so that will be a separate thread coming up.

    BUT!! I found the one original PUP that came with the guitar!

    Its: PAT NO. 2,737,842. Stamped, no decal. Reading about it and taking a closer look it is a chrome covered "T-top" (black inside) with a 2 and a 3 inprinted in the plastic coilpieces between the first poles. A Gibson T-top original PUP! Made between 1976 to 1980, wich should date my guitar somewhere inbetweeen i guess. Any more clues?
     
  14. ddm4236

    ddm4236 Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    38
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Well I thought I was all alone on Vintage Island. Anyone ever seen a strat??

    I have never seen another and I cant find out a darn thing about it anywhere. Nothing like the current brand.
     

    Attached Files:

    2 people like this.
  15. jcsonderegger

    jcsonderegger Junior Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2015
    Hey all!

    This is my first MLP post, but I've been checking out the site for a couple years. I have recently purchased my first LP copy, so I finally felt I could be somewhat accepted here. XD I'm too cheap to shell out for a nice Gibson (yet) and this "Segovia" branded guitar feels better to me than the Epi's I've tried out. I got it used from a local dude for $150, which made my decision process about 4 seconds long. doesn't really represent how this guitar feels and plays well. It's a champ.

    In all seriousness, I have no idea where this guitar came from. It is branded on the headstock as a "Segovia," but the interwebz seem to not yield really any guitars branded exactly the same. There is no serial number or indicator of where it was made. The man who sold it to me didn't know anything about the origins, and found it when he bought an unclaimed storage shed.

    It's a bolt-on, but I actually really like how the neck feels. It has nice mother-of-pearl inlays, and all original electronics (I think), which I will be replacing soon (by the way, if anybody has thoughts on GFS humbuckers, I'd love to hear them as well). :naughty: Also, I took the black pickguard off, simply a personal preference thing. It has a flange right behind the nut on the part of the neck that angles into the headstock to reinforce it, which I like.

    If anyone has ever heard of these, owns one, knows anything about the value, etc, I'd absolutely love to hear more about it.



    Thanks! :thumb:
     

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  16. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Hi, welcome to MLP .. and happy new guitar day !

    Segovia acoustics were made in Korea apparently,
    and the 3 screw truss rod cover and slotted bridge posts
    hint at yours being made in Korea as well.

    If you can post a pic of the entire exposed control cavity,
    we might be able to determine who manufactured these.
     
  17. taylorjshun

    taylorjshun Junior Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Hey guys name is Taylor and this is my first post. I just recently helped my friend move and he gave me this guitar in return. I was wonder if any one here could tell me a little more about, where its from, the year, and if it's worth anything. Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  18. Ohjay

    Ohjay Senior Member

    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    307
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Interesting... Another Aria transitional model with a funky serial number.
    The serial indicates 1980, but the transitional models were only made in 1978-79. My guess it was assembled very, very early in 1980, unless the neckplate isn't original.

    As for model, I'd say that it's an LS-450. It could be an LS-430, but that model is supposed to have coiltap.
    To make absolutely sure you could figure out what the neck and top are made of.
    LS-450: Maple top & neck
    LS-430: Birch top & mahogany neck.

    As for where it was made, well that's easy, the Matsumoku plant in Japan. There is a lot of information to find on the internet about this factory if you want to know more.

    Value then, I'll refrain to comment simply due to not having tried out your guitar.
     
    2 people like this.
  19. taylorjshun

    taylorjshun Junior Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Awesome! Thanks for the info Ohjay that helps a lot. Pretty cool for a free guitar can't wait to play it more!!
     
  20. southernsontn

    southernsontn Junior Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Hi everyone, yet another new guy with a mystery LP. Bought this at a pawn shop under the mistaken impression that it was an epiphone. I was obviously mistaken (not exactly an epiphone expert), but hopefully, someone can help me identify it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.[​IMG]
     

Share This Page