Mylar 50's Bumble Bee Capacitors, Not Paper In Oil?????

Discussion in 'Vendor Classifieds' started by jonesy, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. Mookakian

    Mookakian Senior Member

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    Well, if I want a V8 w/tripple holly's in the Holden EH, a turbo straight 6 aint gonna gimme the grunt I need, so i'll hunt down the 308 with roller rockers :D Sure the turbo would be killer, but i like em throaty and loud!! :cool2:

    Horses for courses :)
     
  2. Arzachel

    Arzachel Senior Member

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    cork sniffing cobblers all caps do that, thats what they do

    you got taken in by nonsense on the internet
     
  3. cooljuk

    cooljuk Transducer Producer Premium Member MLP Vendor

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    No. I didn't.

    If you had actually read this thread, and the other associated thread, in its entirety, you'd have read that I did a blind test with a multi position rotary switch while playing and found difference with my ears. It's allot to read, I know. ...and I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't use yourself. Just don't tell me I've fallen for hype when I've already been through this and done the homework myself.
     
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  4. 79standard

    79standard Senior Member

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    Well, you Aussies have some amazing straight-6 engines that we don't get up here in the 'States. (Cleveland-head Ford, Hemi-Head Mopar, etc)

    It's a different kind of thunder, more like a pissed-off Jag Mark2. The big V8s and the feisty 6-cylinder jobs both rock.

    ANOTHER INSTALLMENT OF TIM'S DIGRESSION WORKSHOP. :D
     
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  5. Arzachel

    Arzachel Senior Member

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    i did my reading,homework and experiments about capacitor theory [including audio] at engineering college i don't see anything written here to undo that

    caps affect tone not saying they don't and the original paper specifications might sound great but Q=C x V will be exactly the same for any capacitor with an equal rating

    so again buying old ones at silly prices is pointless when exactly the same result can be had in a more stable form for loose change

    your money your ears your call but

    you've fallen for hype :)
     
  6. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Here are some pics of some Sprague Bumble Bees just recently pulled from old 1950's electronics equipment if anyone wants to check them out. These are .022 400v 20% tolerance, the solder blob and filler tube indicates that they are paper in oil.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Bees on the Left are Paper in Oil (Solder blob & filler tube)
    The Bees on the Right are Mylar (No solder blob or filler tube)

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Poligow

    Poligow Senior Member

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    are the Luxe bees OK to work in a good old '59 Gibson GA-5 amp ?
     
  8. KN959

    KN959 Senior Member

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    And does someone sells 59 spec caps? Myllar 0.22uf 600v?
     
  9. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    You would want to verify the voltage ratings of any caps before using them in an amp. In the past Luxe has used different NOS caps inside their repro Bees,in a guitar voltage is not an issue but in an amp it is.
     
  10. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Maybe check the MLP Member classifieds or the Vendor section vs posting here.
     
  11. Jason Taylor

    Jason Taylor Senior Member

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    Amazingly awesome thread! Great great info!!!
     
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  12. Mrhehe3

    Mrhehe3 Member

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    Yes, great thread! New information to me. I appreciate the time everyone has devoted to this discussion. Now I have to decide which caps to try for my first outing. I was thinking Hyrel, since they have a good track record of staying on point.

    By the way......Hi! :wave:
     
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  13. 79standard

    79standard Senior Member

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    I'll be happy with whatever caps can get me George's solo tone on "Michelle." (and yeah, I'm sure that signal chain was full of now-vintage unobtanium goodies)
     
  14. CRAZYokiSKATER

    CRAZYokiSKATER Senior Member

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    Is there a major difference between the Mylar and oil in caps? I haven't done much with caps in my guitar. So are paper-in-oil caps more rare than Mylar? :eek:
     
  15. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    There are subtle tonal differences between the two types. I think it's a little harder to find paper in oil Bees that still read within specs.
     
  16. DonaldBort

    DonaldBort Junior Member

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    I am not sure who here has the equipment to actually charge and test a capacitor, however a friend of mine is an electrical engineer and walked me through the process...Pretty simple process and I do not have the test equipment to do so. All caps I buy, I get from him and see them tested first.
    Nonetheless, we started talking about the bumble bee caps and he just laughed and told me to stay away from them due to the fact that 99% of them are bad. And as a matter of fact when they were in being actively used in electronic components they were installed defective and leaked voltage.

    I don't want to cause any controversy here, but just passing on some info. BTW he is not a musician and has no loyalty to any one cap in any one type of instrument.

    Just some food for thought before buying any NOS/vintage bumble bee caps.
     
  17. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar www.MSSCGuitar.com Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    No offense intended towards your friend, but he's misguided regarding the Bumblebees. They were used in a TON of applications, ranging from Oscilloscopes, to Hi-Fi Amps, to Organs, to Guitar Amps etc...Many of those applications still being used today. To say they were installed "defective" is, well, misguided.

    What should be noted in this context though, is that voltage leakage will have next to no bearing if any, when the cap is used in a guitar circuit.
     
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  18. Jason Taylor

    Jason Taylor Senior Member

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    What are the general thoughts of the Allparts Vitamin Q .022 400v cap?

    Jason
     
  19. bill m

    bill m Senior Member

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    Bee's funcioned properly when installed in equipment back in the day. They internally break down a bit and start to leak DC voltage through them after years of use blocking DC voltage. You have to remember that one of the main uses for them were as coupling caps, or blocking caps. They were to allow the AC signal to pass while blocking the DC voltage. So, within a guitar circuit we are only dealing with AC millivolts so the cap does not need to block any DC voltage. My point is a cap could be leaking DC voltage and not be suitable for use in a guitar amp, but will function perfectly in the tone circuit of a guitar.
     
  20. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Lots of romantic notions about these caps but let's face it the Bumble Bees were obsolete technology by 1960. The cases cracked, the acid in the paper version ate through and shorted out the plates. Even the Mylar version had performance issues. All this was bad news when used in amps or other high voltage circuits. They drifted and many are not even close to the original spec'd value. Sprague went to the 160P Black Beauty TV caps but they were not much better.

    It wasn't until Sprague came out with the 195P Vitamin Q with the metal case, hermetically sealed glass ends that they really had a dependable capacitor. They don't drift, perform under all kinds of temperature ranges and are thought to be some of the best tone caps ever made. The Sprague HYREL Mil Spec version uses oil and film and was made to even closer tolerances.

    True that voltage is not an issue when old caps are used in the tone circuit of a guitar. Trouble is many of these have been pulled from old audio gear and were subjected to high voltages for long periods of time. They commonly read way over there original specs and have other issues.

    If you are trying to restore a vintage instrument back to original specs than the Bees may be the way to go. Otherwise there are lot's of other capacitor options out there to choose from.
     
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