My new R4

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by k.guitars, May 8, 2009.

  1. Tele Jr.

    Tele Jr. Senior Member

    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Tele's are like that, they can really vary from piece to piece, it has to do with the break angles of the strings at the nut and bridge imho. Stiffer angle = stiffer action. Overall setup including truss rod relief all come into play and contribute to this.

    Stiff action isn't always bad if you are looking to use slinkier strings and still not loose too much tension.

    My bud's Super 400 has a bigsby on it that makes the bridge break angle so shallow that even with the 13's he has on there they feel like loose rubber bands.
     
  2. mattymel

    mattymel Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    to me bigger strings just sound bigger. sometimes maybe you dont want that. but USUALLY i do.

    that being said, i have decided i like 12s on my R4 (this after buying 10 sets of 11s for it) and 11s on my tele. for me, its also having each guitar feel a little different. if they all feel the same, i tend to get bored faster.

    still waiting on my 2nd Scumback to show. been like a month and a half...Weber is a buzz killer until the day the speaker finally shows. cant wait to hear this Scumnico/H55 combo with my 1974X.
     
  3. Tele Jr.

    Tele Jr. Senior Member

    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Well, I'm not looking to hear the sound of the horn, I wish to hear the sound of the air blowing through the horn.
    The strings are the horn and not what I'm looking to hear be bigger.

    The air is provided by how and by what means you attack the strings so attack and articulation is where I'm looking for to sound bigger.
    I wish for the air to dominate the horn.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. mattymel

    mattymel Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    im not sure i follow.

    for me, the attack and articulation comes from touch and how hard you pick the string, not the string itself. obviously the angle of the pick, the shape, and then how your fingers sound play in as well.

    from my experience, combined with the things i just mentioned, i notice a fuller, richer sound coming from heavier strings vs. thinner gauge without changing the way i play. makes sense as the pickup magnets would have more mass moving over them. this can always be made up for with amps and EQ, but im talking pure signal. then again, im talking maybe a 10% difference between 9s and 12s. still, to my ear its night and day.

    at the end of the day, to each their own. plenty of guys i love played with 9s. there is no going back for me though.
     
  5. Tele Jr.

    Tele Jr. Senior Member

    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Well, I'm sort of out there in terms of my perspective on things like that, I can't help but hold my guitar playing up to the horn and try to interpret what I'm doing in equal terms. That has resulted in the development of my style where certain fast picking passages seem to me like blowing long breaths of wind through the guitar.

    So in short for me and mine both my horn playing and my guitar playing are all about putting air through the horn.

    So it's a fairly large bore horn with a special lightweight bell and a reverse windpipe, also I use that big mouthpiece. So it's not a heavy or fat sounding orchestra horn, it's more of a jazz horn. Not really fat sounding by itself, the point sort of is that I try to make it sound fat by how I play it and blow air through it.

    Back to the R4, So I guess what I'm trying to express is that although I do use the lighter strings on it, I try to make them sound fat by how I play, and am willing to accept that trade off if I get more articulation range with how fat I can articulate the attack of the notes.
     
  6. Mondoslug

    Mondoslug Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Okay, later that day...I stuck a Suhr S90(P90) in the Bridge and liking it alot.

    Suhr S90(P90) in a '54 LP Historic Reissue
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipa6uyBeBRo]YouTube - The Mighty Fine Suhr S90 Pickup(P90)[/ame]
     
    nicolasrivera likes this.
  7. k.guitars

    k.guitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Nice playing, Mondo!

    Okay, this is strange. So like I said, 11's felt totally different on the two Tele's so I switched the Nocaster back to 10's and it felt like a drop of at least two guages. I have already tossed the strings so I can't confirm, but I am absolutely convinced that they were in fact 12's in the wrong package. The box certainly said 11's, D'Addario EPN115, since I purchase them by the box and I still have the cardboard sleeve, though I don't know what the actual envelope said. Having worked nearly 15 years in a manufacturing facility, I can easily see how that could happen on a change-over from one product to another.
     
  8. Tele Jr.

    Tele Jr. Senior Member

    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    That sounds great Mondo. Your recordings are very hi fi. You've got great articulation, as long as we are sort of on the subject, what picks and strings are you using?

    Wondering construction wise what makes the Suhr S90 pup different vs the Lollar or Gibson you were using before.

    I sold my Tele Plus, first guitar I've bought or sold in the 2 years since the R4 arrived. My other Tele is on the bubble now too...
     
  9. Mondoslug

    Mondoslug Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Hey thanks!

    I dunno...manly man, 12s. Jeez!
     
  10. Mondoslug

    Mondoslug Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Hey, cool...thanks for saying. I've got Daddario 10s on there & I replaced the 17 G with a 16. I've been doing that for awhile. I've been using those light purple Dunlop 1.5mm's for awhile. Fender Heavie or Extra Heavys once in awhile...mainly the Dunlops though.

    I dunno on the construction...Suhr's a great dude though, he posts on some messageboards not sure here though. The Lollar in the Bridge was a little thin to me and a little more compressed sounding although I dunno if that's quite right. I like the 50s wind in the neck alot. This Suhr definitely bites right through the Naylor though.
     
  11. Tele Jr.

    Tele Jr. Senior Member

    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Fender X heavy pics have changed for the worse in recent years past and I've heard the same about the Dunlops too.

    I will swap the G too to get more balance in the set between the top 3.

    So are you going 10 13 16?

    When I go with 10's it's more like 10 12 14.

    On my acoustic I go 11 14 18, so I do hang with some heavier strings there, but with an electric guitar seems that doesn't let all of the nuance of the breath of the air blow through the horn for me.

    From my point of view I guess when I read from the book of Uncle Duderonomy, larger strings become a moral equivalent on proverbial terms with overwound pickups, always an attraction but considering the trade offs I wish to pass...

    I don't have any experience with John Suhr's p-90 stuff but his Tele pickups are some of the best I've heard. Best non Fender Tele's I've seen out there have all been Suhr's.
     
  12. mattymel

    mattymel Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    finally the H55 showed.

    worth the wait. getting a rounder bottom end from the 1974X now. Scumnico matches up really nicely. id be curious to see how the amp sounded with a closed back cab. but im not looking to change a thing for now.

    Jim at Scumback is making some great speakers.
     
  13. mattymel

    mattymel Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    hey. ive got a Lil King that i am looking into getting a ext. cab made for. went through a few different speakers looking for just the right one, so i have 2 Webers (10A150 and 10F150T) sitting around collecting dust. both are rated at 8 ohms.

    i know the LK uses 8 ohms speakers, but if i want to use a ext. cab w/ 2 8 ohm speakers (i know that would normally be a 4 ohm load) how should the cabinet be wired?

    the LK has one regular speaker out, and a ext. speaker out. not sure how those are supposed to be used together. any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  14. k.guitars

    k.guitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    If the Lil' King is true to Blackface-era design, and it looks like it is, the main speaker out must always be connected, whether to the internal speaker or an extension cabinet. The extension jack is only for when connecting two cabinets. I believe the extension cabinet is supposed to be 8-ohm as well, but don't quote me on that.

    I have to admit, the Lil' King is quite appealing to me. I'd love to check it out. Perhaps it's time to grab my Nocaster and More, and head down to Seattle again...
     
  15. mattymel

    mattymel Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    sure man. anytime...the LK is no BF PR, but its a good grab and go to the gig amp for sure. pretty amazing the way it cuts. but i am still on the look for the real deal. gonna have to roll the dice on ebay.
     
  16. neils

    neils Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    I just did the deal to have a small builder make me an Octal tube Champ.

    He's on eBay and for the price of a boutique pedal he builds a 5C1 circuit onto a 5F1 chassis so it is easy to find a cab for it. This will be just a bare chassis, no box.

    I'm digging the 6V6 in my Emery more and more lately and I've always wondered about the early Octal sound. This is an easy way to find out if I like it. Little amps are where it is at for me. Early and dirty. Stay tuned.

    Glad to see the thread back even if it has derailed this far. Hell we can do what we want right?

    Oh my R4 is great.

    Neil
     
  17. k.guitars

    k.guitars Senior Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Time to revive OUR thread. To hell with everyone else! Judging from the number of views, they obviously enjoy a certain amount of voyeurism!

    I have to agree about 6V6's. In my little tweed Princeton-style amp, a 6V6 is so sweet sounding. I can use a 6L6, which is a little louder and a little more headroom, but the 6V6 wins in sweetness of tone. That said, I recently purchased, and returned, a Mojo tweed Deluxe clone running two 6V6's. Not my thing at all. I think I prefer Blackface-style Fender amps, other than my Matchless amps.

    I have switched to tuning down half a step all the time, just sounds fuller and bluesier, and it's easier on my voice over a night. It's now 12-52 with a .019 plain G on the R4 and 11-48 on the Nocaster. Otherwise, the R4 has remained a constant since the last rewire. Same pots and caps, same setup, just strings changed once a week or so, and check the relief and intonation given the change of seasons. I left the bridge pickup with the magnets reversed, I love all those out-of-phase tones, snd don't generally like the combination of the two pickups. Just a little too refined and Strat-like.

    I just changed my Nocaster back to stock '51 wiring, which you may or may not be aware of. Position 1 is bridge pickup with no tone, the 'tone' knob acting as a blend control to blend the neck pickup in. Even stranger, I have the bridge pickup wired out-of-phase so it becomes more like my R4. The middle position is the neck pickup with no tone control, the second knob does nothing, and it does a great SRV neck PU thing since it is a little brighter than stock. The third position is the neck pickup with the tone rolled off, except I have used a .015 Vitamin Q instead of the recommended .047 so the effect is not nearly as strong. Great honky/jazzy kinda thing.

    No new pedals, no new anything. Just gigging away, completely happy with my setup. Wow! Never thought that would happen for any length of time, but it's been nearly four months now!

    Oh yeah... the EP is almost done. The regulars of this forum obviously get free copies! Email me your addresses if you want hard copies, otherwise I'll just send digital copies to your emails... which I think I have.
     
  18. glynneCicada

    glynneCicada Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    301
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Hey bro. Im really interested in this Horn analogy. Trying to make a guitar sound like a Brass horn is where Ive been at for a long while. Im really interested in any more ideas & concepts you have about it. The closest I get is to duplicate 'Bitches Brew' era Miles Davis using a Wah-Wah & slide.
     
  19. neils

    neils Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Cool. The thread is alive. I was missin' it. K, I'm in on the EP so I'll email my address even though you may have it. Hard copy please.

    So my little Octal amp arrived yesterday but I've only had half an hour with it so far. People over yesterday night, people over today....... GTF away will ya!

    So anyway it is a 5F1 chrome chassis, one knob ala Champ. 5Y3, 6V6, 6SC7 Octal preamp tube. It seems to be a bit of a mix of a 5C1 Champ and a 5C2 Princeton but w/o a tone circuit. PTP wired, Magnetic Components PT, good real metal jacks etc etc. Purple jewel light, cool.

    What a dirty little girl she is. I only have one 8ohm cab, the 10" Eminence/Fender Alnico "Blue Frame". Nice speaker. ToneQuest likes it, Jeff Beck uses it. The amp is brighter than a Champ set of tubes in my Emery, I never use the tone stack in the Emery so they are a close comparison. I've got the tone on the guitar dialed way back. Gets to the dirt faster than the Emery. Less headroom for sure

    Amp on "12" and guitar full up is a little too dirty for me but very "Black Dub" sounding. R4 on 7-8, amp on 8-10 leaves me room to play about. Very sensitve to attack.

    I'm gonna like this. Need to try a G12H30, maybe my Eminence Governor (kinda dark), maybe other 10"s?

    This has got to go into a tweed cab but it'll be awhile before I decide on a 10 or 12" speaker. I'm really not even thinking about an 8".

    My R4 has remained the same for months now.

    Neil
     
  20. neils

    neils Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oh and I wanted to mention,....

    The Octal amp was $260 bucks. Right. For the price of a fancy ass pedal I got a whole amp. Good components, nice work, all ready assembled just add a cabinet (or not) and tubes.

    I only bought a glass 6SC7 from the builder for $10, I had all the other tubes I needed. Shipping was $25. So for $295 I was in. Took two? weeks for turnaround.

    Not many Octal amps out there. Some in kits, (Weber) bit very very few. I found this guy trolling eBay for anything Octal. He also does a 5C3 Octal Tweed Deluxe with 6V6 or 6L6 tubes.

    Seems like a steal to me and an easy way to try the old Octal tone. Would be awesome mic'd in a Jam.

    Neil
     

Share This Page