My first "band encounter", I'm shocked, help.

Discussion in 'The Squawk Box' started by Milchy, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    Here's what. Guitar, guitar, bass, drums. I don't remember what the bass player was using, but we were playing sort of cleanly. Just our little blues jam. I'm guessing his master was all the way up and the channel was on 4(ish). There was no volume war, we were at gig volume and I just turned up what I had to match the mix. Mix judged by his ol' lady and the bassist's gf.

    On a technical note, you do realize that there is only 6db difference between a 25 and 100 watt amplifier, yes? I have no idea what the JCM uses for speakers (it was stock, he's a non-techno person). My DR probably had a Eminence 12ALK in it at the time, about a 96 db/1watt speaker. Celestions in the JCM would probably be a close match at 97db/1w. The two amps were fine together, although his had much tighter low end "thump", as would be expected.

    I remember this very clearly, as I offered to go get my 2x10 Bassman "combo" I put together, and that was nixed so I just used the DR, and was amazed and pleased.
     
  2. Leña_Costoso

    Leña_Costoso Senior Member

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    should also say a Deluxe Reverb absolutely sings when you run it up about 7ish... just smiling ear to ear tone
     
  3. Marshall & Moonshine

    Marshall & Moonshine Senior Member

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    Unless you can’t hear it.
     
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  4. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    If I had a nickel for every beating I've had to give out for others to lower their stage volume I'd be rich! each room has it's acoustic limit's and volumes and eq's must be set accordingly. If you have small practice space and play in a circle facing each other, then each players amp should be across the circle from them, not behind them as previously mentioned. Each player should hear themselves and the rhythm section predominately and enough of the others to blend in and interact. I wouldn't have stayed in the room for 5minutes with what you described...now! But did I do when I was 18, u bet! But the sooner any group learns to control their stage volume the more enjoyable it becomes to play with them and the better the band sounds...imho of course! :beer:
     
  5. yeti

    yeti Senior Member

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    Thanks for your post, it's always good to hear other opinions on such a crucial topic.
    here's where I come from:
    What's "full out band volume"? I play (not as much as I used to) in bars with my '59 tweed bassman on 6, which is pretty damn loud, sometimes I add my '60 Fender Concert, also halfway up, even louder, but sometimes I play (sometimes with the same guys and the same rig) with the volume so low you could easily have a conversation right in front of the bandstand so again I ask, what is "full out band volume"? IME it is what the gig requires, aka whatever the guy who writes the check tells you it is. "Mixing yourselves" is completely unrelated to volume, you can play a set with acoustic guitars and a tambourine and have a terrible "mix". when I play at bar-band volumes I employ the same approach to balance as I do when when the gig is whisper quiet. What's needed is the ability to listen to each other and IME practicing at high volumes gets in the way of that. I keep going back to my favorite experience as monitor engineer, when I had the pleasure to work with the great Pat McLaughlin. They set up their backline close to each other, eliminated everything from the monitors except vocals and played in front of thousands of people exactly the same way they would play in their living room and it translated w/o issues. Note that they used full sized backline, not some toy-practice amps. If you can balance against other players you can do so at any volume.
    Just my opinion, cheers:cheers2:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  6. yeti

    yeti Senior Member

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    It's vital to use a proper amp when playing live and trying to achieve a good balance, headroom is needed, no doubt. That rules out some 5 watt practice amp,....unless you work with IEMs, then it really doesn't matter.
     
  7. E1WOOD5150

    E1WOOD5150 Purveyor of Joke Grenades

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    I like you style!
     
  8. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    I should have qualified what I said. Mainly I play rock stuff. Pop, rock, progressive rock. So as was said earlier, the drummer sets the bar. The drummer I've been playing with for the last number of years is really great. A solid as a rock pro. And he hits the drums. But with great technique, I wouldn't call him a basher....just a strong drummer that plays like he means it. So everything revolves around that. My guitar amp is as loud as it needs to be just so I can hear myself and the other guys can too. Everyone else, the same way. So basically it will sound balanced naturally....with nothing miked except vocals. That's what I mean by "full out band volume"
    Regarding the comment about
    I have always had a sense of who and what I am and so if I walked in to a gig and the guy writing the check said "please play at background music dinner levels so people can have conversations" I'd walk right back out. I chose to play gigs that are right for the band....never bend the band to the gig.

    Now mind, I did a gig recently where it was just acoustic instruments....guitar, violin, acoustic piano, cajones, and an electric bass with his amp set just enough to mix well. I did not need to amplify my acoustic guitar at all...nobody else was amplified either except the bass.

    I hope that explains where I'm coming from.

    Rock music is loud and bold, not polite. That's how it started all those years ago...it's about rebellion, energy, the chutzpah, the bravado. If you try to tame it down too much it becomes a cruise ship show. No thanks. Just one man's opinion.
     
  9. guidothepimmp

    guidothepimmp Senior Member

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    quality over quantity, and im not talking money..

    key with playin in a band is cutting through the mix. couple of things assuming youre jamming with gain.

    at volume, less gain is more, high gain at high volume can go fizzy quickly. hopefully the bassist is not packing fuzz
    treble and mids can be your friend. too much bass in a smaall environment gets boomy

    tilt your amp up and place it in a corner facing you.. or raise it up to torso level.

    im not a fan of pedals, but beware the gain and vol on pedals that take already loud amps in to buzz territory.

    good luck man
     
  10. yeti

    yeti Senior Member

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    That's cool but I will say this, the best gig with our bar band (loud) I've ever played was at a car dealership at ultra low volumes and the customers were still asking us to turn down even more, best gig ever because it forced us to adapt and made for an excellent set. Just one man's opinion
     
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  11. Rhust

    Rhust Senior Member

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    I play at a church, which some can get quite loud... but ours is a very small church, that's still growing, we go direct to the PA, the drummer is playing a cajone (on the hollow stage, is still plenty loud)... the SPACE makes it quite loud... tile floor, acoustic ceiling, hollow, wood stage... it can get too loud very quick in the seats, eventhough it's "quiet" on stage...

    at the jam I go to on some saturdays... not so much.. that's in a big living room(converted) but the drummer sets the volume, and a 20w amp has no issue keeping up with a 1x12... it's loud in there... but no one needs or wants a 100w + 4x12 any more... we are too old for that shit. I've played with guys that will drown out a drummer... and they are always the ones that are playing out of time...
     
  12. rockstar232007

    rockstar232007 Senior Member

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    Most "garage bands" have no clue about EQ/mixing/sound dynamics, etc. Just plug in, turn up, and start "rockin'".

    I've jammed with many a garage band, and once we figured things out, they felt/sounded incredible.
     
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  13. ht-57

    ht-57 Member

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    Alot of gr8 tips in the previous
    Posts ,if I may add- to be redundant , I believe sonar gets the cred -

    EAR PLUGS

    Irregardless of type of gear
    Or level of talent, basement
    Jam band to
    Arena act-
    Stage levels can be in accses of 110db,
    B4 one mic is ever taken out
    Of the case!
    The foam earplugs are dirt cheap,
    Just squish'em insert, let them expand- then adjust for level/
    Comfort by pulling them out slowly till ur @ ur sweet spot.
    Save your hearing/protect
    Yourself
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  14. Marshall & Moonshine

    Marshall & Moonshine Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. yeti

    yeti Senior Member

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    I always carry my earplugs , both the musician's plugs and the foam ones. If the MEP's have to go in during the course of the gig (usually due to rising monitor levels for vocals) I'll accept that, if I need to put foam ones in my ears I'll never play with those guys again.
     
  16. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

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    Oh, for sure. I wear earplugs all the time now - at shows, playing shows, in practice. I got a set of custom molded plugs and have never been happier. Not only do I have hearing protection, things just sound BETTER with the sound/noise filtered.
     
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  17. northernguitarguy

    northernguitarguy SWeAT hOg

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    I hate gigging with them, but I use MEP's during rehearsal.
     
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  18. Marshall & Moonshine

    Marshall & Moonshine Senior Member

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    I started wearing Hearo’s while jamming with the kid. He smacks those drums pretty hard, and my 2204 is set for “Noon Tone” (all the controls around halfway up), so I figured we both better start wearing them.
    I also just bought plugs for surfing, but it’s too late. My ears need surgery. :(
     
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  19. yeti

    yeti Senior Member

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    what kinda plugs do you use? I use custom mold Etymotic E15 and they do significantly worsen the sound , especially in the upper mids where a lot of guitar tone lives. The bass becomes overbearing due to unattenuated Bone transmission and in no way is it enjoyable for a guitar player like myself to gig or rehearse with those. They are better than foam and for drums or bass they are great but guitar not so good. What kind do you use that make things sound better?
     
  20. mmd

    mmd Senior Member

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    http://guitarearz.com/custom-fitted-in-ear-plugs.php

    My ex-singer is really good friends with the guy that owns/runs this company. He made her some IEMs. The drummer and I got fitted, but I decided I didn't want them. I ended up getting the acrylic plugs. They really seem to filter out the white noise. I can hear everything really well, and they are comfortable to wear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017

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