MUSIC THEORY 101 Don't Be Afraid :)

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by jonesy, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Don't over think it, most people seem to make it way to complicated...and it is a very useful tool for communicating with other Musicians.
     
    Tazz3 likes this.
  2. st.bede

    st.bede V.I.P. Member

    Messages:
    10,261
    Likes Received:
    5,318
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    here is a quick question.....since pop/jazz music is so dominated by (what we call) the petatonics....I TEND to (when I am teaching) start off with both the major (Ionian) scale and the minor petatonic.....I do this if I think the student can deal with both....if not then depending on the student I will choose one or the other....

    also I always teach solfeggio with theory (I belive that helps to ground the info in the inner ear and builds the tools to be able understand theory with out sitting at your insterment....and it is just darn useful stuff)

    master guru (respectfully meant) tell what you think about my system
     
  3. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Well if you are asking me, I think any teaching method that allows the instructor to get useful information across to a student, is a good teaching method.

    As far as developing the ear, I usually put on a fairly easy blues 1 4 5 or a simple rock song like AC/DC and ask the student to play their guitar and find the root note. I call it "going fishing" because sometimes it takes a while to land the right note. When they finally do you can usually see the look on their face like, I got it! The root note will sound correct most of the time when played over the chord progression.
    I am self taught and never really took lessons, so I spent a lot of time rewinding tapes and Q'ing back records in hopes of getting a few notes right.

    The problem today is that there are so many tabs available that people don't spend the time struggling to listen for the notes, so their ear does not develope as fast. I call it "Tab dependancy"...Lol
    Besides the basics I teach...Most of my students have to bring me a list of songs they want to learn and the CD's so they can practice along. If not we U-tube it and jam along with that. It is much easier to learn guitar now than it was 10-20 years ago...did I answer your question??

    Peace, jonesy
     
  4. lifele55

    lifele55 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,432
    Likes Received:
    484
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    I think I have "tab dependency" lol..

    But I am learning the theory side of things now and have just quite understood the CoF (Circle of Fifth).

    But heck, there's still alot more to be done.
     
  5. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Back to the Major Scale...

    Two kinds of intervals, Melodic intervals and Harmonic Intervals
    Remember an INTERVAL is the distance between 2 notes.

    Melodic intervals are the distance between notes in a melody line or scale...

    Harmonic intervals are the distance between notes in a chord...

    The 1 3 5 notes from a Major scale make up that major chord
    E major chord is made up of E G# B

    The 1 b3 5 of that Major scale make up a minor chord
    E minor is made up of E G B see we flatted the G from G# down to G 1/2 step

    I teach a lot better with a guitar in my hand, look at your guitar and play an open E chord than take off one finger(G# to G) and you have an E minor. Easy to see on piano.

    1 3 5 b7 is a Dominant or Blues 7th
    1 3 5 7 is a Major 7th or Jazz 7th
    1 b3 5 b7 is a minor7th
    1 b3 5 is just a minor chord
    1 3 5 is just a major chord
    Are you starting to see how chords are built?
    Chords are built from notes from the major scale, progressions are built from chords...
    Scales and melodies are built from single notes, the same theory works for everyone of the 12 major scales, it is that simple....

    Peace, jonesy
     
  6. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    I used to turn on one of the FM Rock Stations and play along with the radio for an hour or so. Just about the time I would start to get the hang of the chords the next song would start. No tabs, no internet, good for the ear and good for timing. Tabs do not do to much to help your timing, the only way is to play along with CD's or other musicians.
     
    Tazz3 likes this.
  7. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    lets see if I can explain what I am not sure Im even talking about! So I know a scale that I'll start on the G. That in the key of G then? I think its its the Minor pen. Anyhow how then I do that scale in a minor, C , and so on. Sorry if this is a lame question. Also still trying to decipher some of your notation like the following" "...I.I..IV.IV.I.V,IV.I.I..
    /:E/E/A/A/E/B7A/E/E :/" umm like can you make a key for this? Sorry Jonesy
     
  8. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008

    All scales will go from the root note to the octave. The easiest way to learn a scale on guitar is to memorize a pattern and be able to move it around in to all 12 keys. I always liked that about guitar that you did not have to learn 12 different scales, but you could learn one and it would work for the rest.

    I IV V is 1 4 5 chords...the E/A/E/E etc. are the chords in the key of E?? That was a 12 bar Blues progression...
     
    albertlespaul likes this.
  9. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    The Whole idea behind Music Theory is that is is the "Language" in which we Musicians communicate with the Music and one and other. Learning theory allows you to think about chords and scales and see how they relate with each other. You can go to another country and get by, but it is so much easier if you know the language right?
    I played trumpet in band grades 5-12 and got the Louis Armstrong Jazz award my senior year(1978) but I new very little Music Theory.
    When I started guitar it was like someone turned on a light!!! The Mel Bay Deluxe chord Encyclopedia taught me all my basic to advanced chord structure. It showed you like 10 different ways to play a C then they showed it written out with the notes on the Music staff. Root 3rd 5th etc...
    I learned a bunch of Blues scales even before I understood the theory behind them. Being "Pre Internet" and having no Teacher, I would wait every month until a new guitar magazine came out. Then I would read every page and try all the little tabs and columns from Jazz to metal and see if I could learn just one thing to make me a better guitarist, it was a slow process..lol
    I ask my students if they want to be a "Guitarist" or someone who just plays Guitar? Do you know what the difference is?? Also it is important to know the difference between "Playing" and "Practicing"??

    Peace, jonesy
     
    Tazz3 and heybulldog like this.
  10. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Jonsey, Thanks for sparking me to search out answers to these struggles, I spent an hour in my theory book and now believe I understand some essential basics of scale playing. The scales I know are major, major pent., and minor pent. Called pent. due to the omission of two notes making it a 5 note scale as opposed to a 7 note scale. I couldn't understand what made them major or minor since the were the same shape. I used to play them as the whole pattern not really understanding that starting and ending on the root note is what makes the major or minor difference Or if you like happy or sad sound. I just thought that the root note was only for accenting in the riff. This thread is helping me tremendously. Lot to practice. "I IV V is 1 4 5 chords...the E/A/E/E etc. " something I knew but for some reason it didn't click with me at the time . Thanks for clearing it up for me. If it sounds like I still don't have a clue let me know but i think it's a lot clearer now. Also If this sounds like basic stuff I should have known by now forgive me. I'm still pretty knew to this. Also much of my interest in theory is to reach the level of a guitarist not just someone who plays guitar. Now to apply this practically and make sweet improv sounds is my next holy grail. Thanx a bunch and I'm still scouring this thread for tips. :) :thumb:
     
  11. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Nice to hear you are working on your own and seeking out answers.

    I am going to try and clear something up for you about the Major/Minor thingy...
    The 3rd is what makes them different, 1 3 5 major 1 b3 5 minor chord right? Well the same theory that works for chords, works for scales, so if a scale has a flatted 3rd(b3) it must be minor not major. The b7th is a blues thing it does not make a chord major or minor, it just adds color per say...

    OK now check this out, every Major scale has a relative minor...each scale contains the exact same notes. The difference is Root-Octave...
    CDEFGABC is the C Major scale ABCDEFGA is the Am scale and Am is the realtive minor of C Mmajor.
    That works in all 12 keys...
    Major/minor
    A-F#m
    C-Am
    D-Bm
    E-C#m
    G-Em
    All the common keys we use a lot....

    So when you start moving around major and minor pentatonic's this is what you are doing, same notes, different positions, root-octave

    The pentatonic is a 5 note "partial" scale versus the 7 note Major scale which is a pure scale...if we add the 4# in the pentatonic scale we get the Blues scale...a 6 note scale ala the turnaround at the end of a 12 bar blues in E, 4 4# 5 or A A# B it gives us one more note, or a "blue" note.

    I read in a guitar magazine that the 4# tone was actually called "Tonus Diabolicous" and said to summon up demons :hmm:so it was banned by the Monks in the Monasteries....lol Ok, maybe there is something to that Crossroads stuff..Hehe:cool:

    When you solo the root note always sounds correct and "resolves" tension and feels normal. When you play any of the other notes in a scale over chord they add "color" and "tension" and that "tension" is not "resolved" until we return to the root note or octave(same note as root) I break my scales down into two simple groups.
    Root on the 5th string and root on the 6th string, chords have root note usually as lowest note(unless it is inversion)and most scales will start off of that low root note, and work up to the octave.
    Major, minor, blues, whatever they all have the same root, if you are playing in the key of E, then your scale will start on E in whatever position you choose...
    I gotta get some lunch the wife is brnging back Italian Beef Sandwiches...:naughty:
    To be Continued....
     
  12. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO SCALES OVER CHORDS AND IMPROVISATION, TIME FOR A QUICK REVIEW QUIZ...
    When I give my students a quiz it tells us both, what they know, and don't know about whatever we are studying. That helps us concentrate on the things that need clearing up etc...:hmm:
    So here goes, it is open book and all the answers are posted on this thread...

    1. name the 7 white keys on the piano?
    2. name the 5 black keys?
    3. write out the chromatic scale
    4. is the chromatic scale whole steps or half steps?
    5. how many half steps does it take to make a whole step?
    6. how many notes are in the chromatic scale?
    7. what is the formula for the Major scale?
    8. write out the following Major scales...
    A........
    G........
    D........
    E........
    9. What is an interval?
    10. what is the Root note?
    11. what is an Octave?
    12. what notes of the Major scale make up a Major chord?
    13. what notes make up a minor chord?
    14. write out the notes for the following chords...:naughty:
    A........
    G........
    D........
    Em......
    15. What scale is this? ABCDEFGA
    16. What scale is this? CDEFGABC
    17. how many different notes in the Major scale?
    18. how many in the pentatonic scale?
    19. how many in the Blues scale?
    20. What s the difference between a dominant 7th and a major 7th?
    21. what makes up a minor 7th chord?
    22. what is the relative minor for the following Major keys....
    C............
    E............
    G............
    A............
    23. How can you tell if a scale is major or minor?
    24. what are pentatonic scales, major or minor?
    25. What is the difference between a "Guitarist" and some one who plays guitar?

    26. *EXTRA CREDIT What note was called "Tonus Diabolicous"...LOL?????

    The first one to post all the correct questions and answers together get's a FREE pack of Ernie Ball guitar stings... Super Slinkys, pink pack 9's or Regular Slinky's green pack 10's(my Brand:naughty:) good luck!!!
     
    Tazz3 likes this.
  13. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    1. A B C D E F G
    2. A# C# D# F# G#
    3.half steps
    4. two
    5. twelve
    6. 1, 2, 3, 1/2 step, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1/2 step, 8
    7. same as root note one octave higher

    8. abcdefg a,octave
    9. gabcdef g,octave
    10. defgabc d,octave
    11. efgabcd e,octave
    12. space between two notes
    13. 1 3 5
    14. 1 b3 5
    15. A,C#,E
    16. G,B,D
    17. D,F#,A
    18. E,G,B
    19. minor
    20. major
    21. 8
    22. 5
    23. 6
    24. flatting the major 7th
    25. Ab,C,E
    26. Am
    27. C#m
    28. Em
    29. F#m
    30. the root note
    31. both
    32. I would say a guitarist knows his instrument and a guitar player know how to play a song on the guitar.
    33. 4#

    ok did my best may have missed a few anyways it was worth the lesson to find out that stuf, Need to see my doc bbl o ya i screwed up my numbering but no time to fixx it im out !!
     
  14. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    No strings for you yet, better go back and check those questions & answers...:hmm: Hint there are no #'s in any of your major scales you wrote out?? It may be easier if you just reposted the quiz and then go along and fill in next to the question??? I do see a lot of Right answers though, good job :thumb:
     
  15. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    hmm trying it again
     
  16. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Ok question 21 and 20 were the hardest and I made lots of mistakes due to my time constraints on the first go round. I still need to digest a lot of this and commit it to memory and God. Also I wrote most of that i was tempted to copy paste but that felt a bit cheaty although it was open book...
     
  17. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Man you are getting closer to those strings...lol On #8 when you write out scales, always end with Octave to complete scale...
    You still need correct answers for 15,16,17,23
     
  18. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    1. name the 7 white keys on the piano? A B C D E F G
    2. name the 5 black keys? A# C# D# F# G#
    3. write out the chromatic scale. A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A
    4. is the chromatic scale whole steps or half steps? Half
    5. how many half steps does it take to make a whole step? 2
    6. how many notes are in the chromatic scale? twelve
    7. what is the formula for the Major scale? 1, 2, 3, 1/2 step, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1/2 step, 8
    8. write out the following Major scales...
    A........A B C# D E F# G# A
    G........G A B C D E F# G
    D........D E F# G A B C# D
    E........E F# G# A B C# D# E guess I went a li too fast here...
    9. What is an interval? space between two notes.
    10. what is the Root note? lowest or base note.
    11. what is an Octave? same as the root note but one register higher.
    12. what notes of the Major scale make up a Major chord? 1 3 5
    13. what notes make up a minor chord? 1 b3 5
    14. write out the notes for the following chords...
    A........A,C#,E
    G........G,B,D
    D........D,F#,A
    Em......E,G,B
    15. What scale is this? ABCDEFGA. A natural Minor
    16. What scale is this? CDEFGABC C Major
    17. how many different notes in the Major scale? umm 7 and the 8th is the octave.
    18. how many in the pentatonic scale? 5
    19. how many in the Blues scale? 6
    20. What s the difference between a dominant 7th and a major 7th? flatting the major 7th makes a dominant 7th
    21. what makes up a minor 7th chord? flatten the 3rd and 7th (or lower a half step)
    22. what is the relative minor for the following Major keys....
    C............Am
    E............C#m
    G............Em
    A............F#m
    23. How can you tell if a scale is major or minor? if a scale has a flatted 3rd(b3) it must be minor not major, eureka I found it!!!! I hope.
    24. what are pentatonic scales, major or minor? Both
    25. What is the difference between a "Guitarist" and some one who plays guitar? I would say a guitarist knows his instrument and a guitar player know how to play a song on the guitar.

    26. *EXTRA CREDIT What note was called "Tonus Diabolicous"...LOL????? 4# I could'a sworn the title said something like "Don't be afraid"
     
  19. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    A+ :applause: Nice Job Bro, see you actually learned more from taking the quiz. Thanks for putting the effort to getting them all right!!!

    PM me your address and I would be glad to mail you that pack of strings, let me know if you want 9's or 10's?? :thumb:

    Peace, jonesy
     
  20. Gigan

    Gigan Senior Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Ya it was good to get feed back from you where I was off track. A luxury I don't often have so I wallow in my ignorance Thanks for taking the time to post this. it has helped me tons Peace!
     

Share This Page