MTM vs Production Historics Qualitywise

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Andy California, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I feel like this is some kind of interrogation :). Alright, here's the info:
    * My R9 is great for what it is - a guitar with a supposedly '50s neck.
    * At some point, I realized that a slim neck makes me happier.
    * Why didn't I realize that when I was actually shopping for my R9? That's a long story, let's better not get into that. Let's just say that I am not as bitter about that as one might think.
    * When I decided that I should buy a slim neck LP, at first, I thought I'd keep them both. I bought one online, had it for a couple of days, and even though I didn't like that particular one and returned it, I decided that I don't really need two "bursts". That's why I am going to let my R9 go.

    I tried that '58 with V2 neck one, and I didn't really feel any substantial difference from R9s. It's definitely much bigger than R0s and "Slim Necks" I tried and didn't feel slim enough for my liking.

    As for modern looks... I shouldn't have used that word. But since I did, let's just say that in my mind, a solid-color LP looks more modern because in my mind it's associated with a more modern type of music (late 70s/early 80s metal) than the sunburst (60s and 70s hard rock).

    * "Burst" vs LPC is all about looks to me. I want a maple-top LPC. I don't really mind the difference in sound between ebony and rosewood fretboard.
    * When shopping for my R9, I was torn between the flamy "burst" and LPC looks, but since there are/were no Historic LPCs with maple tops (I don't think there were any 50s type Historic LPCs in stores either), the answer was obvious.
    * Recently, I have come to a conclusion that if I had a choice, looks-wise, I'd go with an LPC in a heartbeat.
    * Yes, there are these non-Historic LPCs, and I seriously considered them, but I found the neck to be not as comfortable as R0 FOR ME (it was chunkier and rounder on several 2015 and 2017 LPCs than R0).
    * To sum it up, an R0 would work just fine for me as a guitar. But I wish it had the LPC looks to be completely happy. At this point, I am thinking whether to risk with MTM or not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018

  2. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    If this were an interrogation, eyebrows would be raised at this point, Andy.

    Here's you, yesterday, Jan 18:

    Here's your for sale ad, posted on Jan 09, nine days previously:

    I'm sure you can see why I was - and still am - unsure what is going on here.
     
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  3. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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  4. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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  5. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I would be getting waterboarded if we were in the same room right now...

    Like I said, the R9 is good for what it is - an R9/8. Prior to getting an R9, I owned a couple Tokais with your typical R8/9 neck. My preference changed, and now I want an R0.
    If I were to get something like a Fender or ESP instead of R0, I would keep my R9, because it's good. But since I want an R0, it makes no sense to keep the R9. I don't need more than one guitar of the same type.
    When I said I'm happy with my R9, I meant that my motivation for flipping is not the same as those who buy R8/9, sell it because it doesn't exactly cut it, buy an other R8/9, sell it because it doesn't exactly cut it, buy an other R8/9 sell it because it doesn't exactly cut it and so on.
     

  6. GT40

    GT40 Senior Member

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    My M2M is stunningly good and not vintage looking at all.

    Having said that, maybe OP does not want a historic. Perhaps one of the custom shop other offerings might be more in line with the slimmer neck and modern feel/look.
    Maybe a CS LP Custom Scorpion which I think look pretty amazing and definitely not just another burst. Or a rock top with the axess heel.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  7. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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  8. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    :io::io::io::io::io::io::io::io::io::io:
     
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  9. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    LPC were made/ and can be made with an R0 neck . Every so often Gibson produces them as part of their general runs of guitars . R0's and slim neck(R0) never sell as well So production numbers are very limited . Ordering a LPC with 1 isn't difficult and you might be able to do it without going M2M . I'm not sure these days , so check with Gibson or a few dealers.

    Looking for a guitar that , is super close to 1 you already have or have played ? Welcome to the club ... they are all different and have their own properties . But should average somewhere around what all of them feel and sound like ...
    My R0's all compare as well as any R9 I've had or played . Some are better then others .Set up better then others , and play better them others .... That's all in how they were built and the woods and pups used . And How I set them up to my tastes. some Gibson will not do what another Gibson does ...
    That's part of what Gibson's are ....The part that's not as cookie cutter, variable.
    Adjusting the Amp to the guitar , inmost cases is all that's needed to get what most are looking for .
    Amp set up , for as much as it would be nice , can not be locked in ,in a 1 size fits all .
    After you decide the guitar Is a good 1 . Getting the tone and feel from it is in the amp and pups /harness and caps .... Strings and your pick ??? might help also ...

    IMO Gibson doesn't make as many "DOGS" as they once did . IMO A DOG is a DOG for everyone ....that try's it . It's a POS , badly made ,not worth a penny guitar . even then many , with an overhaul (nut, bridge and maybe a pro setup) can be brought to life .... Some are beyond help ..Those ae DOGS , imo .....
     
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  10. zakkrhoads

    zakkrhoads Member

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    That's a glorious top...congrats! :cheers:
     

  11. freebyrd 69

    freebyrd 69 Silver Supporter Premium Member

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    If you decide to do a MTM, I'm going to predict that it will be a train wreck, both for you AND the dealer dealing with you.

    You are overly picky, which is your right, as it is a lot of money. BUT, knowing that, why on earth would you risk getting EXACTLY what you want over the internet? Just go find one that works for you. Take your time.

    You claim the R9 is a great guitar. Is it really THAT bad as far as the neck goes for you? Why not play it until you find something that works for you...IN HAND. I'm tellin' ya, it's going to be a train wreck.
     

  12. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    I think if you have the feeling to take a "risk" with M2M you shouldn't do it.

    You're relatively new to guitars, right? And probably among the younger ones here. I, too, am quite young by comparison probably. And I understand your struggle to some extent. I guess these historics are big money to you and that complicates things even further. Don't take these things all too seriously. You're going to have a lot of time to figure this out. Maybe do the M2M anyway, play the thing and if something better comes along, move on...

    I understand you describe yourself as a LP guy. Consider the idea that that might not be the case. I know you've had or tried a lot of models. But afaik this guitar stuff is all quite new to you. So I think there's a lot to learn. My learning curve really went up once I just had a historic.

    Regarding necks: I kinda grew up with the understanding that necks are just what they are and there to accept. Good players don't really seem to have difficulties switching from baseball bat to pencil and appreciate the differences. Playing my SG hurt for a while, playing the R8 hurt a bit. But that was mostly because I just wasn't very good at what I was doing and just grabbed the damn thing too hard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018

  13. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    Exactly.......experience is time related.......takes years to overcome some of these issues.....be patient....work on technique....get comfortable in your shoes before tossing them for another pair....if money is no problem then don't mind me....do what thou wilt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  14. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    There are so many great guitarists of all styles and they play f***ing 500 dollar guitars and they sound great. They play riffs from all the classic albums and to most they probably sound indistinguishable from the original track (let's not get into the aspect of the mix etc here....). And we are here fearing that a 5 thousand dollar instrument will be "shit", "unplayable", "dead on arrival" or whatever? It's ridiculous!!

    I second the aforementioned sentiment: You'll know a "dog" when you see it.
     
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  15. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Just get a CC#7 or Beano and be done with it. Great necks on both.
     

  16. Cygnus X-1

    Cygnus X-1 Senior Member

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    I have 2 MTM's...I'm lefty and I wanted a new LP (my first one back in 2012) and after working with my local music shop and trying (upside down) standards to get a feel, I went with a R8. Love it. I ordered another one last year. The idea was to get an Slash Appetite finish/top- what I got was not what I was looking for.... I should have refused it/sent it back but I kept it and ultimately sent it out for a re-top.

    Point? The M2M thing can go awesome or not so awesome and you should be prepare for that. I'm currently waiting for my 3rd and final R8- a cherry sunburst. But I will refuse it in a heartbeat if there's anything glaringly wrong with it. Live and learn.
     
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  17. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Not exactly. I am just not a connoisseur enough, and I tend to ask a lot of questions.

    I feel like this thread has gone out of control again. I started it with a simple yet maybe (for some people) a bit controversial question, and it ended up being about questioning of my reasons for the question in the first place.

    Some valid points have been made here. However, I am not seeking for advice on what to do in my situation. I am simply exploring one of my options. If I decide not to do MTM, I will go out and buy an R0 - no problem with that. I believe my original question has been answered and this topic has been exhausted.

    Thanks to those who tried to answer my question, and thank you lpthomas for trying to help me out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  18. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    I see. I misread you in this old thread then. And I know it's unfair to quote an old thread. I just wanted to show you that this wasn't just a rude assumption.

    Though my post wasn't all about this aspect of being new to guitars. I agree: Advice has been given. I hope you'll be able to find a nice LP soon. I'm quite new here so I enjoy seeing other people coming here and picking up a historic!
     

  19. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    No it isn't :).

    Ze internet is forever and we must own what we say.
     
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  20. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Then be sure to find one with a V3 neck, not the thicker V2.
     
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