MTM vs Production Historics Qualitywise

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Andy California, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    Are the odds of getting a dog guitar when placing a Made-to-Measure order lower than when buying a Historic online? In other words, based on your experience, would you guys say that MTM get more attention and therefore are more consistent in quality than the semi-mass-production regular Historics? Or is it not the case?
     
  2. toymaker

    toymaker Senior Member

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    Same builders = same results

    The MTM simply reflects "custom" specs requested versus "standard" specs from the run. The people doing the build are the same from my understanding. Just like buying a car - they dont have a different production line for cars with certain options selected versus those those with the standard package solely.

    The builders are not likely to show "extra care" when building a custom spec than they are when building a standard spec'd guitar. The only thing they will do is ensure that they attempt to meet the requested criteria (at a charge) - IE different tuners, a different finish, different pickups or neck size. It is not designed to be a "Private Stock", "Masterbuilt" or whatever marketing name you want to attach to the "special special handmade limited and expensive guitars" made elsewhere. It just allows you to make minor spec changes at birth versus modifying something after delivery.
     
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  3. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    Each & every Guitar is a crap shoot ex Gibson.........IMHO.

    Just the way it is.

    See quite a few M2M in the Classifieds after the NGD Pump & Dump in this Section.

    What is your definition of & requirement for a “good” Guitar?

    We all have different wants, needs & desires.

    I do hope you find your dream Guitar though. :)

    My 2c FWIW.

    :cheers2:
     
  4. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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  5. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I think it's not as much about a "good" guitar, which is very subjective, as it is about a not-dog guitar... which is still subjective, but to a lower degree than a "good" guitar, I suppose :)
     
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  6. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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  7. BBD

    BBD Senior Member

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    Andy, the only way you can be sure is to try before you buy. Patience is the key. In case you think I'm just talking, it took me a little over two years to find the R9 I now own.
     
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  8. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I know I know... i've already learnt that :). I just thought that maybe MTM is something like "masterbuilt" thing, in toymaster's words, and for a second I thought I could get exactly what I want that way.
     
  9. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    NOPE
    The only guitar I ever sent back and got Gibson (with a Huge push from Curt at HOG) to agree to build me another M2M replacement , was the M2M I had done . I decided to keep it after all was said and done ... As it turned out to be a smaller issue then I thought ....
    Death and Taxes come with a guaranty
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  10. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    It's a funny thing this phrase about dogs. Gets thrown around very often, yet I wonder for what reasons. It's repeated over and over again by people who have probably not played more than ten reissues, and probably not all of them new in case...

    It sure makes you feel as if you were inducted into the mighty club of sound discerners.

    It happens all to often that someone uncovers some fatal "flaw" and the whole "Gibsons are shite—told ya" begins again.

    These guitars, at 4-10k, are probably too good for many of us here. Yes, we deserve a flawless instrument. No question. Is this a fact that there are so many dogs among historics out there? I think this idea is absurd. Few really know, I'd say. I definitely don't, so this might all be my own version of the same BS.

    In short: Are the Custom Shop guitars really that inconsistent?
     
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  11. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    What would that be? I think you can get what you want that way. I don't see why not actually.
     
  12. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    M2M is nothing exotic.
    It's same people, same woods, same pipelines, same everything.
    You just can decide (picking from a basket of limited options) what neck profile (58,59, 60, V1, V2 etc...), what top (limited and linked if it's a 58 or a 59 or a 60 etc..), what finish from BOTB or their own reference list, and they just put the pieces together as for any other guitar.
     
  13. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    Last year, when I asked for couple of quotation, they were also giving you the Standard Historic or True Historic option. Not sure now.
     
  14. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Add to this that it's probably the easiest way to get an aged or heavy aged LP in the finish you want currently.

    Some should probably stay away from M2M. It definitely helps to be able to understand and accept what you'll be getting. I think some find that more difficult than others. In the end, it's just another solidbody electric, nothing special for no one special.
     
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  15. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    All? No. But a lot? Yes.

    Look no further to the CC line where all the guitars are supposed to be replicas of other guitars. There should be some consistency in this since it is "scanned" and whatever other BS they claim. Yet, weights, neck measurements, and pickups are all over the board.


    M2M can be deadly to a picky buyer (who deserves to be picky). I would never do it.
     
  16. PierM

    PierM Black & Gold Premium Member

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    For what I've seen...you can't be really picky with M2M. Options are very limited and linked each other (for example you can't ask for a top grade flame top for a 58), and you have zero access to the process, so after you filled your checklist of things you want, limited to what they can give you, you are gonna be pretty much abandoned, until it's ready.
    Forget about any picture a la HM, lol.
     
  17. lpthomas

    lpthomas Premium Member

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    Yes, I definitely see the point. And I do have the same feeling. Some just shouldn't do M2M. I for example don't care about weight or the top much (if I could pick between, say, three, I'd be fine with that), so I do appreciate the fact that I have the option of putting something together.

    As for the CC line... that's a very good point. I was late to the "party" and most of the CC guitars had been done before I really took any interest in their offerings. The whole idea seems silly to me... I see a lot of very attractive CCs and think the more recent ones like the Chicken Shack look very nice. But this whole replica idea is just a strech.
     
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  18. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Thats actually my point. I think someone who wants to do a M2M is expecting more than they will receive. I have seen more negative than positive.
     
  19. surge98

    surge98 Senior Member

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    Does anyone know if a custom fret size can be specified for a M2M build?
     
  20. Andy California

    Andy California Senior Member

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    I understand what you mean. Honestly, I haven't played a Historic that I thought was a dog, but I have played only about 15-20 of them in total. I've played a few that, subjectively, didn't sound as good as some others. I thought they lacked something in the sound department. Other than that, for the most part, I can't really tell a meaningful difference in sound between two Historics.
    I don't know whether the Historics that I didn't like sound-wise would be fine if I never compared them to those that I liked. I wonder whether these that I didn't like would be considered simply different or actual dogs by more experienced "burst" connoisseurs. Or maybe, on the contrary, I got it all wrong and they would be considered more true to the vintage sound, which I know nothing about as I have never been even close to a Gibson from the fifties. Therefore, I don't I really know what a dog Historic is :)
     

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