Modelers and Touch Sensitivity.

Discussion in 'Amp Modeling' started by frankv, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    It doesn't "feel" like a tube amp............

    You hear this a lot. Especially from tube lovers that won't open their mind to the new technology,. In the case of the AXE FX I can tell you beyond a doubt that when set right you can have any tone you want. Including the glass like tone and feel of the best Fender amps..

    I'm not going to just talk crap either like some of us have a habit of doing. I'm going to prove it with this recording I did this morning. Check it out then you decide. I played these melodies especially to highlight the glass like tone and feel I am sure you can hear.

    This is a Freman Super Reverb preset. 1 15 cabinet. Mcnaught on neck.. and boy o boy this Mcnaught is something to behold..

    Listen as my fingers move on the strings. You can hear the glass like tone..

    https://app.box.com/s/914cd94sdrpzf2zqmglkq71tr65kuapo
     
  2. Case24

    Case24 Senior Member

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    I was one of those nay sayers Frank and I can tell you that even my lowly Yamaha THR10C has touch sensitivity. I never would have believed it until I experienced it myself. I can set an amp model like the Class A for instance on the edge of breakup with my guitar volume on about 7 and can drive the amp into a nice crunch just by digging into the strings harder. I can also clean up or dirty up the amp with the volume control on the guitar. Just like a tube amp. :shock: Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Yamaha actually digitized each component of a tube circuit when they designed these amps. :thumb:
     
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  3. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Thanks for posting because I have been called "foolish for believing" by one of us here.. and I resent it deeply. I was also told that these modelers will "never" sound like a tube amp.. Well that person can go stick it...

    You can imagine just what you can do with a $2500 AXE FX2 can't you? Especially after you got the Yamaha..
     
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  4. Case24

    Case24 Senior Member

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    No doubt in my mind anymore. :cool: By the way...really nice playing Frank. That's the kinda stuff I like to hear.
     
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  5. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Thank you Case.. Ya know, many of us here like distorted tones .. At least it seems that way doesn't it..

    I love the ability I have to switch from tones like this recording has to ultra high Soldano or Marshall distorted tones in a fraction of a second.... and every imaginable tone in-between.

    It's been 4 plus months of me owning the Fractal.. I can honestly say I have been so pleased with this device that I really will never consider a tube amp again.. EVER.
     
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  6. caljoe

    caljoe Senior Member

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    Real nice Franky, I love a good clean and that sounds great!

    Next week bro, next week.
     
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  7. IronWeso

    IronWeso Senior Member

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    Sick Frank!!!!
     
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  8. slither

    slither Senior Member

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    First off Frank, very nice playing and second, what a remarkable demonstration of the nuances of the Axe FXII.

    It's with these sort of tones, with a relative clean signal using just attack and pick dynamics to give a little grit, are the proof of the pudding that modelling amps are the way of the future, and the future is here now.

    I was never a naysayer as such, but a few years ago started taking lesson after decades of playing and my teacher, who is a professional musician, uses an Axe FXII as his gigging amp. He doubts he'd ever go back to a valve amp. The convenience factor alone, let alone all the options to tailor the sound to any given need makes it worth the investment.

    The students, btw, plug into an Eleven RackThis and this was my first exposure to modelling amps, and even with the Eleven Rack I can say that there is nothing lacking in the tone and response with this level of modeller. At home I use a Yamaha THR10C and the story is the same.

    I am now considering purchasing my own amp for jam night purposes and I have to say that modellers are at the top of my list, in particular the Axe AX8 or perhaps the Yamaha TH100D.
     
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  9. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    I appreciate your comments very much. You see, fact is I have played and owned more tube amps in the last 3 years then anyone I know on this forum.. I am sick and tired of reading posts from the know it all's around here telling me that modelers at this level "will never sound like a tube amp" and that "I'm foolish" for thinking it. I was then called a fanboi for Fractal. I can not tell you and others here just how pissed comments like that made me. Especially coming from a dude that doesn't own or play an AXE.. It's insulting to myself and this forum to have guys comment on things they know nothing about and actually argue over it. Typical Internet BS. Baseless and without merit.

    Let's talk for a minute about these so called great sounding tube amps. There have been amps I purchased that have been so bad they didn't make 1 day before they were relisted for sale. I have had vintage Marshalls that were so brittle they were unusable for me. Experience has showed me that even the same model of amps sound nothing like each other. The very fact that tube amps vary so widely should signal that they are not a tool someone can rely on to make consIstant tones with.

    Are they all bad? Of course not. But there are enough bad stories to make those interested to wonder if there is a better way.

    The very fact that this sub room exists and has the excitement it does should signal many of us are or have been pretty unhappy with the same old same old.. I revel in it all because for me I can remember my first thread I made months ago talking about my friends pro band that uses only HD300 pods. The push back I got was intense.. Now those same dudes that pushed back are now owners of high end modelers and many of them have sold or are getting ready to sell those "precious" tube amps they once thought were tonal nirvana..

    So for me, that is validation enough that those with an open mind, wanting more from their playing have found it. Just like me.
     
  10. j5jarod777

    j5jarod777 Senior Member

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    My Fender Mustang IV has amazing "touch". I'm far from a great player, but I believe that touch sensitivity has alot to do with the player and not the amp. Sounds amazing by the way Frank.
     
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  11. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Thank you my friend.. The Mustang is one of those amps that until recently got zero respect.. I could never understand why.. Perhaps it because it's "solid state" many discounted it just because of that.. But in fact the Mustang line can and does fool many in side by side tone tests with Fenders best amps.
     
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  12. Matty

    Matty Senior Member

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    Touch sensitivity is one of those things that you need to be in the room with to really quantify. You need to feel the strings under your fingers and how they interact with the speakers to truly define touch sensitivity.
     
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  13. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Ultimately of course... But you can get a good idea by listening to my fingers as the slip off the strings.. It's all there . In spades
     
  14. Matty

    Matty Senior Member

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    Picking lightly is a purely subjective thing, only you know how light your touch is. Your clip sounds great Frank and on a recording it would be universally accepted as being great. But the subject at hand is touch sensitivity which by definition is defined by touch. Which is purely subjective.
     
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  15. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Everything in life is purely subjective. Reading a review and buying a product based on that review is subjective. Yet people do buy products based on reviews don't they.

    So consider this thread nothing more then my review with an audio clip in addition to words. Nothing more or less.
     
  16. Liam

    Liam V.I.P. Member

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    Got any gate running on the input of that preset Frank? I like setting up with it turned off, and then turning it on just to see how imperceptible I can make it. It's about the finest noise gate I've ever used.

    The touch/feel of the Axe-FX was the first thing I noticed, along with just how much it sounds like amp and cab combinations I know and love. I'm still working on presets while I collate the rest of the modeling rig, but I am really enjoying this amp.

    Good demo, but as others have intimated, you have to actually feel it for yourself to believe it. I have not been disappointed so far.

    Liam
     
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  17. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    No there is no gate it's a pretty organic preset.. I've had my AXE rig for 4 months now and every time I play it I'm blown away by how much I like it.. its amazing because there are still amps and certainly cabinet IRs that I have not even tried yet
     
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  18. dspelman

    dspelman Senior Member

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    *headscratch*

    I've thought of touch sensitivity as something other than reproduction of string noise and ordinary dynamics, so I'm interested in how others are defining it.

    I have a Carvin Belair (2x12, EL84s) that's been modified with a pot that allows me to dial the negative feedback (this is *not* the interaction between a speaker and the strings, BTW) from the stock amount right down to zero. At the stock amount, the Carvin is a gorgeous clean amp, easily among the best. But when you start dialing that negative feedback down, you can begin to hear the amp "dirty" up when you really dig in, while retaining creamy cleans when you're using a lighter touch on the pick. That, to me, is touch sensitivity. Some amps have more, some have less, and some (like mine) will allow you to dial it in.

    In most of the more advanced modelers, this is also something that the editing software will let you dial in, but in the less advanced modelers, it's a fixed thing (just as it is, ordinarily, in the Belair). In other words, while it's a tube amp characteristic, it's not something that's been overlooked by the designers of modeling firmware.
     
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  19. Liam

    Liam V.I.P. Member

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    Frank,

    I have owned far fewer tube amps than you. Probably less than 20 in total, but still own 10 or so now. Like you, I am consistently taken aback at how close it gets to amps I have loved. I have played at a decent amateur up to semi-pro level for over 30 years, I know tube amps really well, I don't care that not everyone "gets" the Axe-FX thing, but you and I both know this is a really serious tonal proposition with a level of flexibility that would take many tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to get near - and that's if you had the space to house them all.

    I don't think I'll get through all the presets or IRs in my lifetime, probably not even all the amp models if I'm honest. This doesn't bother me, because I'm pretty sure I'll find everything I can want or need. I'm still loving the journey.

    Liam
     
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  20. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Yeah whatever he said.... Errr I think.. :thumb:

    Whatever it is, I'm loving it. Hows that?
     

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