Minor Pentatonic - Chord Tones

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by db3266, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Hyniss

    Hyniss Member

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    If I take the 1 and 4 chord sequences, and move them, will this effectivly give me the arpeggios for all boxes/padderns for chords in the E and A shapes?
     
  2. st.bede

    st.bede V.I.P. Member

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    wow... I just glanced over these. I think I use most if not all of them but I approach them in a different way. I base them off the arp and how certain arps flow through different scales. However, I really look forward to sitting down and seeing how you organized them from the pentatonic shapes. Thank you very much. Very Cool. I love the use of colors and do not find them confusing (but I do already know most of the notes).

    :thumb:
     
  3. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    I'm a little confused as to what you're asking here.

    The diagrams have used roman numerals for chords (I, IV, V) and numbers for the "box positions"
    (1, 2, 3, 4, & 5), so when you say "...the 1 and 4 chord sequences..." could you elaborate a little, so I can understand the question?

    Thanks

    :)
     
  4. Hyniss

    Hyniss Member

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    What I mean is, if I take all the scales (boxes) under chord 1 will that match up with the arpeggios for the Dom7 chord? are the chord tones effectivly the arpeggio notes highlighted in the minor penitonic? Thanks.
     
  5. bsm9981

    bsm9981 Senior Member

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    Just wanna say thanks to the OP and all the guys that created this thread, its been VERY useful to me. I've really been stuck in a pentatonic rut as of late, and this thread has opened up my ears some, it has me listening for the chord changes instead of just banging away at a certain scale. Also it has me playing more selectively to the backing tracks instead of just playing "scale notes" for lack of a better term. I've been practicing in just the first box so far, and started applying just the chord tones to the backing track, then I started adding notes here and there and I feel like I made progress tonight, and I haven't felt that way in a while. Anyways, thanks again for all the great info and counseling you guys give us beginners that can't find a way for lessons at the current time.
     
  6. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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    Gottcha. Yes, "chord tones" are arpeggio notes.

    The only proviso to that statement is the "minor third/major third" issue: where the dominant 7 chord will feature a major third, but the minor pentatonic shape features the minor third.

    The extended diagrams show where the major third can be added to the minor pentatonic, to give all the chord tones/arpeggio notes.

    (It looks busy on the page, but with a guitar in your hands it should make sense pretty quickly).

    :)
     
  7. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    I've arrived a this thread from a point in my learning because, although I have the 'main' chords down in their original open positions (I mean I can hit them, not fast, because I haven't been really practicing them), like A, Am, C, D, Dm, DM7, etc, I think I now need to start learning some of these on other parts of the fretboard.

    I've learned the minor blues scale, which as you all know, means I have also learned the minor pentatonic, in all shapes. I can play both scales, without looking at a diagram, starting on any root anywhere on the fretboard now, so I guess it's time to get some other stuff learned.

    So I'm guessing that having some of the chords down that play on any part of the fretboard that go along with the minor blues/pentatonic would be a good place to start.

    I'm a little confused about the above diagrams. Can someone get me started by just posting two chords and their fingering for the 2 minor pentatonic shapes that start on the 5th and 12th fret and that both start off 1-4? If I can get two chords and how to finger them in those two shapes, I can deduce what this thread is doing from there, I think.

    TIA
     
  8. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Just went back over all of this. It's above my skill level, but I am starting to understand it now.Thanks to all who posted.

    In my limited understanding, what is going on is that these diagrams show what other notes can go with the minor pentatonic, which are simply chords that go with it? What I mean is that the notes in the chords, the chords that are compatible with the scale, can be played individually along with the notes in the scale itself to create a more sophisticated phrasing?
     
  9. spitfire

    spitfire Senior Member

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    If I understand you correctly, yes, what you're saying is true, but is sort of backwards. A composer might approach the selection of chords to match a scale and certainly might to match the notes of a melody. For a performing musician, the choice is usually what notes to play over the chord progression, which is already defined by the song. This is usually done during an improvised solo.

    In this case, the point of this thread is when improvising over a chord progression, at any given time, you can always play notes from the chord, while playing over that chord.

    If your point of reference is the pentatonic scale, then you can think of it as adding the chord tones (notes from the chord), to the pentatonic scale. But again, only when playing over that specific chord. So what you're choosing to add is changing constantly with the changing chord progression.

    Jazz guys do this all the time and I'm sure a lot of others do it without realizing that that's what they are doing. They just know that at a given point, a certain note works really well and at other times within the same solo, it sounds awful.

    The pentatonic is more or less the chord tones that are common to the chords in progressions like the I,IV, V (blues). So the pentatonic is sort of set of safe notes, while the other take more care to use properly. But add immensely to the sound while staying "inside" and sounding very melodic since they fit the chords perfectly.

    Keep in mind that these chord tones often do NOT fit a typical 7-note scale. For example, take the 3 common chords of a blues like an A7, D7, E7. If you write out all those notes you have 9 different notes while typical scales have just 7. So thinking in terms of adding chord tones can, at times, take you past where you can get thinking in terms of a scale. Yet, everything will sound very solid and not weird in any way.
     
  10. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Makes perfect sense because I have started playing notes "outside" of the patterns to see what I could get, and some sound good and others are awful sounding. Thanks for your reply.

     
  11. Tazz3

    Tazz3 Senior Member

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    great thread iam going to try to do a minor from box one. they said learing scales is important so iam going to give it a try
     
  12. Tazz3

    Tazz3 Senior Member

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    Ok I been doing the a minor pentatonic scale the last half hour the one that starts on the 5 fret what other minor scales can I learn that's easy lol QUESTION I DONT wanna do minor scales with open strings I saw a few of these on u tube like the a is good its all fretting and and I go back up I use upward picking and when I go down I use downward picking.
     
  13. huw

    huw V.I.P. Member

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  14. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Hope this is correct, and if not, please correct!

    Tazz, just learn the entire minor pentatonic sale. It's 5 positions. You have learned what is called the "1st position." Better yet, learn the minor pentatonic blues scale and you have at the same time learned:

    1. Minor pentatonic
    2. Major pentatonic
    3. Minor Blues pentatonic

    They are all the same shapes, except the blues adds one flat note to the pentatonic scale shapes. There are 5 "shapes" total. They always come in sequence as in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 as you will not play the 1st position, then right below it the 3rd position.

    If you wanted to "play through" the minor pentatonic scale and stay in key, you would play position 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 3, 4, 5, 1, 2. In other words, if you started with position 1 and went up the fretboard (toward bridge), the next position would be 2. Likewise, if you started with position 1 and went down the fretboard (toward the nut), the next position would be 5. That never changes, although you can play it however you want. e.g., If you play the positions out of sequence, you'd be changing keys, since the positions dictate what notes you play, and what notes you play dictate what key you play.

    You can use the first position to find the key for the entire scale. For instance, if you use the first position and start with the index finger on the top A note, you are playing A minor pentatonic (As long as you play in sequence). If you move that position up 3 frets, you are playing the A major pentatonic scale, which is the same as playing the F# minor pentatonic scale.

    The reason is that the notes fit together differently, which dictates whether it sounds or is major or minor. Yes, it is confusing to see that a minor pentatonic scale can at the same time be a major pentatonic scale--when you view it on a fretboard. But if you keep in mind that those are only names, and the real difference is what notes you play, it will make sense. Obviously, if you can use the same shape and simply move it on the fretboard to get both a minor or major scale, there will be two names for the same sound.

    This link will show you that visually.

    A Pentatonic Minor Guitar Scales



     
  15. Tazz3

    Tazz3 Senior Member

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    just a fast question on these scales i been doing the A minor that starts at the 5th fret.
    i read that if i move up to the 3 th fret iam stilling minor scales with the same finger order?? and if i move down to the 7 th fret iam still doing this is this true??i read that on the circle of 5 th links under scales


    THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS
    Pure Minor Scale

    The Pure minor scale is closely associated with the Blues scale; in fact, the 5 notes of the blues scale are derived directly from the Pure minor [1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 (8 is the octave, which is the same as tone as 1)].
    Note the patterns are identical. Play this pattern starting on any note on the E or A string (see neck above) and you are playing that note’s Minor Scale. Practice this scale till your fingers hurt. You will use this scale over and over again.
     
  16. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    It sounds correct, but that always confused me. As I stated above, you can simply move the 1st position anywhere and you are still playing the Pentatonic scale. There really isn't a "major" or minor" pentatonic scale,as they are exactly the same. It's the notes played that changes, which gives it a "major" or "minor" sound. (At least that is how I currently understand it.)

    "For instance, if you use the first position and start with the index finger on the top A note, you are playing A minor pentatonic (As long as you play in sequence). If you move that position up 3 frets, you are playing the A major pentatonic scale, which is the same as playing the F# minor pentatonic scale."

    You can slide the 1st position anywhere on the fretboard you want! Slide it around and listen to any differences.

     
  17. Tazz3

    Tazz3 Senior Member

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    I am sorry I did not see your replay before I wrote about minor scales asked if I was doing them right lol yeah it sounds confusing but I think I understand what u are saying if my finger is on the a note then iam doing the a scale if my finger is on say g note on the low e then iam doing the g scale??
    Iam right?? Iam new to this lol its confusing but if its the way I think it is I kinda understand it thanks
     
  18. DW4LesPaul

    DW4LesPaul Senior Member

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    Tazz use the scale generator I linked to and you can see how it works very easily. You can move the entire pentatonic scale around the fretboard. Take note of the rootnotes, which designate if the pentatonic scale is either major or minor. The C major and A minor pentatonic scale is at the same position, for instance, and the root note starting position is only different.

    A Pentatonic Minor Guitar Scales

     
  19. db3266

    db3266 V.I.P. Member

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    IMPORTANT

    I am closing down my image hosting account. If anyone wants to take ownership of all the pictures in this thread, can you PM me your email address and I will send you the photos. It will mean you will need re-make this entire post. Sorry, but I have to close down the image hosting, so all pictures are going to be removed from this thread.
     
  20. Gyroman

    Gyroman Senior Member

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    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can put photos in albums on your MLP public profile which can then be linked in posts in the same way as an external image hosting. It might be worth trying that before you close your hosting account.
     

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