MIJ Pickup Data thread

Discussion in 'Other Single-Cuts' started by reborn old, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    I don't think Maxon was a general distributor of DiMarzio pickups to the shops or guitar factories, I think Maxon just ordered the DiMarzios as needed to fill guitar factory orders alongside their usual pickups.

    If a Greco was to have DiMarzio pickups then someone would have to order them from the US and that would have been basically Fujigen or Maxon as Kanda Shokai would probably leave the ordering of guitar parts like bridges etc to Fujigen and probably just left all the pickup manufacturing and ordering to Maxon.

    That is really the only way that I can think of as to how the Greco DiMarzios have a Maxon code on them, that the DiMarzios passed through Maxon before going to Fujigen.

    DiMarzio 1978 Catalog

    [​IMG]
     
  2. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    Here is an email from Maxon.

    They did not use Alnico 7.

    Alnico 7 magnets are not really used for any brand of pickups like Seymour Duncan DiMarzio etc, there might be odd exceptions but Alnico 7 isn't a magnet that pickup makers use much.

    If there is a MIJ pickup list then it should try to be as accurate as possible otherwise it has no meaning, if the info is available from Maxon themselves then that should be used.

    If Maxon says they used Alnico 3, 5 and 8 then that should be what is included unless someone has solid evidence for something like Alnico 7.
    Some people get Alnico 8 and Alnico 7 mixed up, I don't know why but they do.

    In the Maxon made Super 70 ads from the 1970s, Alnico 8 is mentioned as the magnet used.

    [​IMG]

    I don't want to be a pain in the --- but Maxon did use Alnico 3 and Alnico 5 and Alnico 8 and not Alnico 7.

    Dear Michael,

    We tried to find the old technical information and checked thoroughly about all the pickups. However, there was no information that we can trace from model number such as U-4000. All the information we have in the warehouse is just delivery numbers for guitar assembly factory.

    All the information we can provide is as follows.
    Alnico3, Alnico 5 and Alnico8 were used for Alnico pickups. For Ceramic pickups, Ferritic2 and Ferritic3.2 were used.

    Regarding the serial number, we sent you the information before. That's the all the information we can provide.

    Best regards,

    Miyuki Nagasaki
    nagasaki@maxon.co.jp

    Maxon / NISSHIN ONPA CO., LTD.
     
    reborn old likes this.
  3. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    The pickups starting with a 5 or a 8 seem to be from the early 1980s? when pickup makers other than Maxon might have been involved in supplying pickups for Grecos and one of these is probably Fujigen as Fujigen started making their own pickups starting in late 1981.

    In the 1970s it was mostly Maxon suppying pickups for Grecos.

    Maybe Maxon had some leftover pickups after Fujigen started making pickups and maybe Maxon just stamped them with serials beginning with 5 and 8 but not necessarily following the Maxon pickup code and then sent them to Fujigen.
    I don't really know but there does appear to be some overlap in the 1982 period between Maxon pickups and probably Fujigen pickups as Fujigen probably takes over the Greco pickup making in 1982.
    Maybe Maxon and Fujigen made pickups for Grecos and Ibanez's together for a short time around 1982.

    It looks like one of those transitional things.


    [​IMG]

    The pickup above has a 820407 serial number and a Screamin 1982 sticker

    Maxon date code = 7th April 1982 so it makes sense

    [​IMG]

    This is a Ibanez Super 58 pickup starting with a 8, serial 820718, so 18th July 1982

    [​IMG]

    Another 1982 Greco pickup

    820225

    25th Feb 1982

    [​IMG]

    Double Trick 820114

    14th January 1982

    [​IMG]

    Another serial starting with a 8 serial 811203

    811203 = 3rd December 1981

    [​IMG]

    I don't know about these Greco pickups beginning with a 5 from 1982.
    No month has 32 days and in other pickups starting with a 5 the month digits don't work out.

    [​IMG]

    and here is a pickup starting with a 5 out of a 1982 Greco Super Power serial 511121

    [​IMG]

    So this one could be interpreted with the Maxon code as 21st November 1981 but the other pickup codes beginning with a 5 don't seem to follow the Maxon code.

    The pickup codes on these pickups starting with a 5 don't seem to follow the usual Maxon code.

    But reading the 5 serial pickup code backwards from right to left (Japanese style) gives

    511032 = 11th March 1982

    509012 = 9th January 1982

    511121 = 11th December 1981

    [​IMG]

    and a EGF 850 from 1981 with a PU-2 pickup with serial 524101

    524101 = 24th October 1981

    and a EGC 500 from 1982 with a 511032 pickup serial

    511032 = 11th March 1982

    and a EG-500 from 1982 with a 502032 pickup serial

    502032 = 2nd March 1982

    and a 1981 Super Power with a 511111 pickup serial

    511111 = 11th November 1981

    which is very interesting because it starts to make a bit of sense but I don't know if it's right.

    Backwards serial code from right to left

    First number = Year (9=1979)
    Second and Third number = Month (01=Jan ... 12=Dec)
    Fourth and Fifth number = Day of Month (01-31)
    Sixth number = Nisshin Onpa (Maxon) pickup production line code (5)

    or put another way

    serial code from left to right

    First number = Nisshin Onpa (Maxon) pickup production line code (5)
    Second and Third number = Day of Month (01-31)
    Fourth and Fifth number = Month (01=Jan ... 12=Dec)
    Sixth number = Year (9=1979)


    Usual serial code from left to right

    First number = Nisshin Onpa (Maxon) pickup production line code (1, 2, etc)
    Second number = Year (9=1979)
    Third and Fourth number = Month (01=Jan ... 12=Dec)
    Fifth and sixth number = Day of Month (01-31)
     
  4. jacco

    jacco Senior Member

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    Excellent post!

    Yes, the 5 & 8 coded pickups start in 1980 with the old Maxon format.

    Otto's (muccax) observations may be interesting in this case for he found that Maxon pickups have 2 hole bobbins and Greco pickups have 3 hole bobbins, so they might be easily identified during the transitional period.

    As a reminder: the first Mint Collection catalog dates to june 1982.
     
  5. vintageJIM

    vintageJIM Banned

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    there were Mint Collection guitars being produced in 1981 :) .......................
     
  6. wulfman

    wulfman ABB Fan Premium Member

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    Ok, show us....
     
  7. muccax

    muccax Senior Member

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    hi
    super work harold :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::applause::applause::applause::applause:
    that all makes sense ...

    all the best
    otto
     
  8. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    Muccax, do you have your pickup serial numbers starting with a 5.

    It would be great if you could post them.
     
  9. muccax

    muccax Senior Member

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    hi
    a egc 500 mint serie .. serial 2 6003 ... pickup nr 511032 both neck and brigde pickup and it has long tenor
    egc 500 mint serie with super power on the TRC ,,,, serial 2 5970 516012 both
    with doweled neck ....
    both have huge necks and FEB ,,, the first one is only 3,3 kg ... and it is not a chambered body ..... :)

    both guitars have maxon pickups,,, oil caps ... correct wireing channal .... bone nut ,,,
     
  10. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    Thanks.

    511032 = 11th March 1982 out of 1982 Greco serial number 2 6003

    516012 = 16th January 1982 out of 1982 Greco serial number 2 5970


    The pickups starting with a 5 seem to fit the backwards Maxon serial number format.
     
  11. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    Here are some links to some Greco pickups DC resistance specs

    greco-pu-0

    Those of the double adjustable pole piece specification, PU-0 are loaded in PU. Greco of this time seems that requests higher output than in the past. It tried measuring the direct current value of resistance of the U1000~U4000 pickup which is in labor assistant. U1000 7.55~7.71kΩ (population 2 average 7.63kΩ) U2000 7.65~7.91kΩ (population 3 average 7.76kΩ) U3000 7.66~8.09kΩ (population 12 average 7.82kΩ) U4000 7.84~8.13kΩ (population 5 average 7.98kΩ) Whenever the grade rises, it understands that also output barely has risen. When the PU-0 pickup which is loaded onto this guitar was measured Front PU 8.15kΩ rear PU 8.09kΩ Because with at the value which is said, population are few, it cannot conclude, but that output probably is raising, you could guess. By the way, it was sold in the same time and was loaded onto MR-1000 [tsu] [pe] and others [bo] pickup PU-1 has shown the value above 8.4kΩ, furthermore it was high output.

    1979”N» Greco EG-800 "Freclesiƒ\ƒoƒJƒX–ºj"

    1976”N» Greco EG-900 CR

    1976”N» Greco EG-900 TB


    and it seems like Kanda Shokai/Greco has brought back some of the old Greco pickup models

    Greco - SUPREME SOUND BUSTER -
     
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  12. Ohjay

    Ohjay Senior Member

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    Interesting, the reversed Maxon date stamps that is.
    I've got this one lying around that I found in an Aria Pro explorer(probably a 1977 model).
    I've always suspected that it wasn't original, and this ought to confirm that:
    [​IMG]

    It measures 7.61kΩ by the way
     
  13. JDB

    JDB Senior Member

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    "Greco", the dyslexic years.
     
  14. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

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    I wasn't aware of the right to left Japanese script tradition, doublecut.
    Nice find !

    I'll keep a list of line run #5 pickup serial #'s and hopefully it will give us a better understanding of production dates, and hopefully confirm the reverse dating convention doublecut figured out.
    I'm under the impression this #5 production line was probably separate from production lines 2 and 8 because of:
    1- this unique reverse dating convention ,
    2- the 6 to 10 month lag time before pickups were being used in Les Pauls (Jan + Mar pickups used in late 1982 serial # EG LPs) #2 + #8 line runs appear to have been installed in Les Pauls within 1 month.

    If or when members post a 5 prefix Maxon code, it will be added to this current Maxon list.
    Here is what we have so far:


    Production line run #1, PYMDD + PYMMDD formats

    1973 (5 digit PYMDD format
    #1 3 8 20
    #1 3 8 22
    1976 (5 digit PYMDD format .=Nov, x=Dec)
    #1 6 3 30 Greco EG-900
    1977 (5 digit)
    #1 7 6 03 Gotoh "S" stamp Heerby
    #1 7 8 27 PU-0,
    #1 7 9 20 Dimarzio, Greco EG-900
    #1 7 9 22 PU-2 (inked, not engraved)
    1978 (6 digit PYMMDD format)
    #1 8 07 25 UD, Greco EG-480 1978
    1979
    #1 9 11 28 EG500 Super Real #L797077
    #1 9 12 15 PU-2 engraved, EG-850 SR "A" stamp


    Production line run #2, PYMDD + PYMMDD formats

    1977 (5 digit PYMDD format)
    #2 7 6 27
    #2 7 6 28
    1978 PYMMDD format
    #2 8 02 06 PU-0,
    #2 8 09 01 Gotoh "S" stamp
    #2 8 10 14 PU-0,
    1979
    #2 9 12 24 Dimarzio, Greco EGF-1000
    1980
    #2 0 04 18 Dimarzio, Greco EGF-1000
    #2 0 09 08 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 0 09 25 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 0 10 18 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 0 11 21 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 0 12 12 PU-2, Greco EGF-850
    1981
    #2 1 02 26 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 1 06 20 Dimarzio, Greco EG-900
    #2 1 09 18 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 1 09 25 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #2 1 11 24 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200


    Production line run #3, PYMDD format

    1974
    3 4 5 10 Greco engraved covers "F" stamp, Maxon sticker


    Production line run #5, PDDMMY format

    1981 Oct-Dec
    #5 24 10 1 PU-2 Greco EGF 850 1981
    #5 11 11 1 Greco Super Power 1981
    #5 11 12 1 Greco Super Power 1982
    #5 11 12 1 Aria Pro Explorer '77 non-orig 7.61k Ohm

    1982 Jan-Mar
    #5 09 01 2 Burns Bison 1982 #12
    #5 16 01 2 Greco 1982 #2 5970 egc-500
    #5 02 03 2 Greco 1982 EG-500
    #5 11 03 2 Greco 1982 EGC-500
    #5 11 03 2 Greco 1982 #2 6003 egc-500


    Production line run #8, PYMMDD format

    1981 Nov-Dec
    #8 1 11 10 Dry-Z, Greco EGF-1200
    #8 1 12 03 EGF-850 1981
    1982 Jan-Apr
    #8 2 01 14 Double Trick, EG-100 1982
    #8 2 01 26 Dry 1982, EG-120 1982
    #8 2 02 04 Dry 1982, EG-120 1982
    #8 2 04 07 Screamin' 1982
     
  15. rayspang

    rayspang Senior Member

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    Last night I compared a set of super 70's from 1976 (AlNiCo) and a set of ceramic early 80's super 70's in similar guitars. To my ears, I can't detect any tonal differences.
     
  16. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    :laugh2:
     
  17. doublecut

    doublecut Senior Member

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    Here are the English pages for some specs M.J.Yamauchi's HIKIDAORE with MIJ Guitars! ......Tokai/Greco/Fernandes/YAMAHA/ESP/Navigator/AriaProII etc.

    U1000 7.55~7.71kΩ(2 pcs ave.7.63 kilo ohm)
    U2000 7.65~7.91kΩ(3 pcs ave.7.76 kilo ohm)
    U3000 7.66~8.09kΩ(engraved type 12 pcs ave.7.82 kilo ohm)
    U4000 7.84~8.13kΩ(engraved type 5 pcs ave.7.98 kilo ohm)

    PU-0 (12 adjustable polepieces) Front PU 8.15kΩ rear PU 8.09kΩ
    PU-1 (no polepieces and resin potted) approx 8.4kΩ
    PU-2 Front PU 7.70kΩ rear PU 7.55kΩ
     
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  18. DNS

    DNS Member

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    Anyone else who got a Maxxon Dry-Z with Dry 1982 sticker but without Maxxon production number?

    It's on my EG58-120 serial No 2 0033

    Edit: And it has no DRY-Z stamp either!
    Edit II: It was the two hole bobbins that made me realize it was a DRY Z, not a Dry 1982.
     
  19. reborn old

    reborn old Senior Member

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    Re: Visual differences DRY Z's & Dry 1982's

    Could the actual wire colors under the shielding be different on Dry Z vs Dry 82 pups ?
    All my pics have the black braided insulation obstructing wire insulation colors, so I couldn't tell conclusively.
    Dry Z's might have black or grey or white wire lead insulation, and Dry 82 have colored wires ? (after 1984 anyway) but not sure.
    Hopefully some owners of these pickups will post their pickup wire insulation color findings, if in fact different.
    There might also be differences in magnet size and/or placement.
    I've posted '82 transitional pups below that have both: Dry Z stamps and Dry '82 stickers and a dry Z end shot showing magnet and pole placements. Sorry, no Dry 82 magnet end shots.
    Thanks to "Japan vintage guitars" for the 1st pic and vintageJIM for the 2nd. Sorry, no guitar serial numbers DNS, but very near yours in production timeline, since pickups are dated late January 1982.
    As long as yours has ferrous magnets, (which it should at 7.13 k ohms), I would just call it a Dry '82, in the absence of ink stamps. YRMV :)

    2 hole bobbins like Maxon's, are often found on Greco produced pickups bearing no Maxon ink stamps up to 1985,
    but 3 hole bobbins are not used by Maxon on their ink stamped pickups.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. wulfman

    wulfman ABB Fan Premium Member

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    Interesting info Reborn. I have had 4 Greco LPs from 1986/1990 and all had braided shielded wiring, no plastics. Two had what should have been Screamin and the other two should have had Dry82. I have seen photos of the DRY82 pickups with black covers that had plastic shielding but no other examples. Are there any particular examples of EG models (non-customs) after 1985 that have plastic wires?

    Pics of what are probably "Dry 82" from 1990 Greco.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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