LP/SG wiring changes a history

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by onehippie, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    get to know your SG friends original vocal circuit configuration
    pre changes

    starting with a '59 L P TV special thru 72 SG


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    '59 LP TV special

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    '61 LP TV special

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    61 les paul sg

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    62 sg standard 50s

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    62 gibson sg junior
    if the tone 1 lug was hooked direct to the vol wiper lug would it be 50s wired with piggy back cap the tone to me should only be removed from thr wiper not the source before it gets to the wiper
    or the cap hooked to tone 1 lug ran to vol wiper then ground wiper lug to back of pot leaving the vol source lug open for just the pup +


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    62-special

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    64 sg reverse 50s



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    65-special

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    66 sg standard reverse-50s


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    66 sg standard reverse-modern
    curious output stage these 2 shots
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    67 SG Standard (guitar owned by b-squared)
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    68 sg standard

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    oh the changes
     
  2. Papa

    Papa Senior Member

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    Onehippie,

    Interesting pics, to say the least!
    Thanks for posting.

    What I find interesting as I compare them is cap placement. Are those all stock setups?

    They look very similar to the type of pics I take. Are those your own guitars?
    I'm surprised if you were able to find such good and consistent stock shots.
    Either way, nice collection of pics.

    If they are your guitars, consider me extremely jealous!

    Papa
     
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  3. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    would be nice
    though none are i was researching for '62 SG Standard stock
    wiring for a "rewire" im starting this winter with Jonesy
    ended up more a history of sorts
    glad youve found it interesting as well right on
    you hit it clean
    they are all stock setups as far as i could gather
    i hoped that spirit would come thru
    im going with 50s as in '62-'63 it was stock as far as i can tell
    no metal plate

    research source was here

    1962 SG Special
     
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  4. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    the last image above is a '72 Standard
    sorry about that

    now here we arrive
    from '53 GoldTop through juniors toward '71 SG deluxe

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    53 Gibson LP Gold Top

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    57 Gibson Les Paul Junior

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    69 Gibson LP Deluxe Gold

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    71 Gibson SG
     
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  5. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    a bit clearer
    [​IMG]
    56 LP JR

    [​IMG]
    70 SG Junior
     
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  6. tonedragon

    tonedragon Senior Member

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    Wow I can finally have change the switch in my SG3 faded thanks for the great photos.
     
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  7. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    Here's my '67 SG Special...reverse angle

    [​IMG]

    BB
     
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  8. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    B-Squared Thank you for your contribution to our record needed a '67 special

    ToneDragon im glad youve found it useful
     
  9. b-squared

    b-squared Banned

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    Added my pic to the original post, so there's some better context.

    Great thread!

    BB
     
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  10. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    right on now its improved well placed
    its one from us members many :D

    and timely too
     
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  11. chrisalchin

    chrisalchin Senior Member

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    Got a question regarding vintage vs modern wiring. I've recently don't the vintage wiring mod to my 95 lp standard and the difference is night and day.... It was like taking a pillow out from in front of my amp, it's so much more "bell" like.... My question is why did gibson switch to modern wiring? It's like down grading for no good reason...
     
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  12. chrisalchin

    chrisalchin Senior Member

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    Bump
     
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  13. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    i believe this had something to do with it


    ""The 1960's was a period of incredible growth for the music business in general and Gibson in particular. The explosion of rock and roll, jazz and folk music produced unprecedented demand for guitars of all types. Back-orders were as long as two years on many models. Major makers - including Gibson -

    began to experiment with new materials, designs and production changes in an effort to speed production and improve profits.

    CMI was acquired by Norlin Industries in 1969, and in 1975, Gibson opened a new factory in Nashville, Tennesse.""

    may have been when they turned from braided wire
    everyone went to modern and tiny wires
    and experimenting with pot types
    ground points tin box
     
  14. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    Bump for Chrisalchin
     
  15. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    *
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Strato

    Strato Banned

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    Thanks........................:cool:
     
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  17. gtr-tek

    gtr-tek Fumble Fingers Premium Member

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    My take on this as I don't profess to be an expert...

    The behavior of 50's wiring between the tone and volume pots causes the taper to shift when both are turned down a bit. The tone pot also begins to act as a volume pot when the volume pot is turned down a ways. My best GUESS is that there were complaints of this behavior and Gibson fixed it by using modern wiring (moving the tone cap to the pickup lug on the volume pot from the switch lug). That did indeed make the volume taper consistent but at the loss of high frequencies as the pot is turned down. This is why I believe a multitude of guitarists leave their guitar controls dimed all the time. I was one of them, so I guess I would know about that at least. :hmm:

    No free lunch here...

    Treble bleed cap and resistor combos placed across the switch and pup lugs on the volume pot help this but it still lacks the beauty of the 50's circuit in it's tonality. You just need to choose which method suits your ears and playing style.
     
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  18. CRAZYokiSKATER

    CRAZYokiSKATER Senior Member

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    Is the 50s wiring worth doing in a Epiphone? Big difference? I am thinking about doing it, but I don't want to redo it...again
     
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  19. Electric Funeral

    Electric Funeral Senior Member

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    It makes a difference on my guitars. I'd say do it.
     
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  20. onehippie

    onehippie Senior Member

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    there are a number found
    to be done for an epi stock
    improvement indeed to systems
    wiring nut frets bridge the like

    a vocal circuit must breathe
    in a contoured environment
    might get with Jonesy
    good stuffs educationally and other
    also River has had fine results with easyy change connects
    all goes to reaction not really betterer\worse
    not to give to a tit for tat
    with modern and volume on 5
    5o% or more of original signal is shunting to the volumes ground
    the tone pot lug 1 is hooked to this
    configuration
    the tone is also shunting some to its ground
    unless on 10
    basically two grounds per tone session
    loosing signal to ground
    with tone on 10 and vol down this even before the tone pot and its ground lug has a chance to properly
    contour the bleed off to ground of treble
    so by this the signal remaining is by default more darker and thinned than really needed
    the solution always play at ten across the board
    not good this
    imho if certain business changes werent made back when
    the wiring would have possibly
    never changed from original 50s configuration
    was a cost cut situation there are other theories on it
    all your doing is bringing it to a more original design

    for me all the early albums i dig had a certain era of instrument friends
    that were mostly stock 50s configuration
    so i just set it to the default specs for those years
    why totally reinvent the wheel
    there are many systems coexisting on a guitar
    all with a specific task designed around each other
    50s vocal circuit was the configuration chosen to represent
    these variables with contouring
    and interplay between tone and volume was a perk
    also modern is a downsizing of components in alot of cases
    wires pot values quality are sub level
    its enough wiring to move it out the door without holes in body open wide
    and play for customer not really react optimal

    all my instr. friends were used and older models i see them as unfinished
    projects that just happened to be from a guitar factory
    i got lucky they were also of quality had that hum

    i also noticed a marked change in the reaction and feel of the stock pups
    with 50s
    if you suspect the pups are at fault check for modern wiring
    could be the cause of woes to you
    the pup usually will tell the tale

    ymmv

    if your happy with the way it is now then make no changes
     
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