Les Paul Rewire. 22 awg cable?

Discussion in 'Gibson Les Pauls' started by sebass, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Hi guys. So i am going to rewire my LP to 50s style but i see all ppl are using 22 awg cable.

    For electrical conductivity that is poor thickness of the cable. The cable it ultra thin.

    I'm wondering if this has effect on tone or buzzing over all.

    If you look at speaker wires the thicker the better. Most of the time 16 or 18 awg is perfect

    I would think 18 awg would be proper thickness and copper too as copper has best conductivity besides gold and silver. What do you guys think?

    I have 18 awg wire at hand but insulated with rubber covering. Do i really need cloth braided cable and why 22 awg? I'm perplexed why entire guitar industry is using such a thin wiring? Please enlighten me.

    I'm also contemplating if i should use 15uF instead of 22uF in the neck?

    Thank you in advance.
     
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  2. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    Pickups generate low levels of current and 22awg is more than adequate. Many asian guitars use .24 or even .26 Speaker outputs are high current and require the thicker wire.

    ps; Cloth wrapped with external braided shield is superior quality and so much easier to work with! Well worth the extra nickels! :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  3. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Thanks mate for your feedback. That makes sense. Should i just leave the current wires alone then or slap a 22awg cloth wire in there anyway. I'm torn on that?

    I ordered 4x CTS 525k +-5% tolerance from artoftone and PIO caps 40y-9 (4x 22uf, 1x 15uf and 2x 47uf) from Kiev so all that's on the way. My guitar had 2 pots with 12k value, weird.

    Also pickups GFS vitage 59 in neck and GFS crunchy pat in bridge. They sounded good and i'm not willing to spend $200 on Duncan's yet.

    What do you think about 15uf vs 22uf in the neck? Strings EB super slinky 9s.

    I'm also contemplating of leaving current switch and jack in place or switch to switchcraft?

    Any info on setting this up would be greatly appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  4. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    I usually put the good wire in, but thats more because Im anal. Im sure you would be fine with the existing wire. For the PUPs and Caps it's really a subjective thing...experiment is your best option...what sounds good to one may not to someone else... Yes I would swap the switch and jack for switchcraft.. :thumb:
     
  5. yamariv

    yamariv Senior Member

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    If you are bothering to rewire, I'd go all out and put in the best stuff you can get. You've already got awesome Pots and PIO Caps, I'd for sure do the Switchcraft Switch and might as well put in a Switchcraft Jack for a couple bucks. What guitar are you doing this to OP?

    I redid the entire wiring on my Standard and couldn't be happier. I did it all top of the line and know I shouldn't have to mess with it at all for years to come..(Knock on wood..)

    Also, I did a .015 PIO on the neck pup to try to have it a little less muddy and I like the sound.
     
  6. ACEit

    ACEit Senior Member

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    wire count indeed.
    I recently changed the one of my brand new traditional... as I was checking other things I try to connect the output of the volume pot DIRECTLY to the amp.. and I immediately noticed the sound is less "compressed" and a bit warmer...
    I throw away the stock wiring and put in new cables obtained cutting some spare HI-FI connection cables I have in the house.
    Not a big upgrade by itself.. but is there nevertheless.
    Is not the cable section that count, but the quality of the material they are made of.
    I have 5mt of external braided shield I bought some time ago from ALL PARTS. when I received it I find out that the inner part is not clothed but the usual rubber(ish)
    It was a PITA to solder as when you try to weld the external braid the inner part melt down causing shorts.
    the guitar I used it on never played good .. until I unmounted all the wiring and tried it connecting one piece at time.... I found the issue was that cable indeed.
    It has good section and doesn't gave any impedance checked with a multimeter, but it just KILLS the sound...
    First thing you have to try is connect directly the output of the volume pot to the output jack... if you notice some difference in sound/tone the cable to and from the toggle is not good enough... to try a new cable just place about 1mt "on the fly" between vol and output jack and check if it's "transparent" enough... once you are shure you have the right cable then start to do the rewiring... it's useless made all the work trusting the new one is better than the stock

    :naughty:
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  7. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Thank you guys. Ok you've convinced me. I'll do everything including switch and jack and cable. It bugs me that simple function of switch cost $15 for nickle and $24 for brass.

    Good point with wire too. Any recommendation where to get the wire? I found this on amazon. Not sure if it's good. Seems good enough.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYPZ598/?tag=mylespaul04-20

    BTW i had to order new nut as the plastic POS was pinching the strings and i will be getting rid of that and putting Graphtech Tusq, the slippery black one. Had awesome reviews. I think i will also put 0.015uF in the neck first as i don't like muddy necks but from what i've heard 50s wiring fixes that issues, so just wondering how that 15uF cap will do it's job.

    I will also have to order pointer washers as i like that. My guitar is Gibson Les Paul Standard, Cherry Sunburst with 60s neck and Grover silver tuners.

    I didn't weight it yet as batteries in my scale went out. I'm trying to make sure everything is as good as it possibly can be without losing arm and a leg.
     
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  8. ACEit

    ACEit Senior Member

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    about caps, on mine trad HP I put a .010uf.. .015uf it is in the mid and doesn't give me the "woman tone" i was searching for.

    Note that, even if the capacitor used on a guitar are not polarized, in some cases the direction count..
    I made a lot of "blind test" to check if its true.. and with some capacitors it's almost the same..e.g. w/ orange drops are quite impercetible.
    with russian PIO is clearly evident...
    Again... not a big difference but adding tiny upgrades make your guitar really sing at the end.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  9. yamariv

    yamariv Senior Member

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    Les Paul Standard eh!? Post some pics please!! :naughty::naughty:

    I know the switchcraft switches seem a bit expensive but totally worth it in the long run as it's top quality and should easily last 50 years or more.

    Good call on the Tusk nut, I have one on my Junior and it's awesome! It made it one of the most tuning stable guitars I own.

    There are lots of great online guitar part suppliers like Stew Mac or All parts etc.. I personally use Philidelphia Luthier Supply for all my parts as they have awesome service, great prices and very affordable shipping to Canada. If I were you, I'd go more traditional and use the vintage braided push back wire for your project. Here's the link. They also have pointer washers there too, check them out.

    http://www.philadelphialuthiertools...elded-cloth-push-back-wire-for-guitar-5-feet/

    Keep us updated! :cheers2:
     
  10. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Interesting. So with caps i'm assuming caps letters facing you with left being left? Or how to place them.

    I just saw wiring for J.P and he has .015uF in neck, not that i'm going to go with the wiring but that's interesting that he had that. I'm going to go with traditional 50s wiring.

    http://saleexpert.me/jimmy-page-wiring-diagram.html
     
  11. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Ha ha i know where you going with that. I will post some pictures so you guys can judge the craftsmanship of it. I'm willing to take criticism.

    To be honest craftsmanship looks great. I mean even details like neck's sides look great. What i have is cheap hardware.

    Guitar setup guy told me frets are slightly uneven between first and second fret but i don't know if he was trying to make some extra money for saying that or if in fact that's the case.

    I may go to second guy after i set all this up for second opinion. I'll see. What i know labor is most expensive to i'm willing to do it most of it myself and i'll leave rest that i can't like fret leveling and other lutheir stuff.

    Thanks guys for feedback and website links and Happy New Year everyone.
     
  12. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  13. ACEit

    ACEit Senior Member

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    there is not a rule .. the letters are printed after the caps is done ... as it comes at hand... so sometimes it is better in one way .. sometime the opposite.

    I made a "testing tool" with a little dpdt in order to switch alternatively between two caps "on the fly"... to compare different caps or find the best way to weld them in

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  14. vivanchenko

    vivanchenko Senior Member

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    All of these upgrades and especially experimenting will take an enormous amount of time and it all will make little to no difference. Spending this time practicing will make the greatest difference to your tone by far. I know , I've been there. Currently I have a bunch of Russian PIO caps and I don't even bother to put them in. If I were you I would focus on music.
     
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  15. yamariv

    yamariv Senior Member

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    Haha, you are definitely new here! No I'm not wanting to see pics so I can criticise your guitar, please search the term "Guitar Porn" and you'll understand why we all want to see pics of any guitar :naughty:
     
  16. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Senior Member

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  17. yamariv

    yamariv Senior Member

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    :wow:I didn't see that the OP had posted pic links above.. OP please tell me you know that you have a Chibson.. :iough:
     
  18. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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    Ha Ha of course i know it's Chibson. What gave it away btw? I still would like to know what you guys dislike or like about it, either way, which is why i said give it to me, me know it's Chibson. lol

    I paid good price for the wood and craftsmanship and the case and I am ok with it, it being my first guitar ever.

    It's mahogany solid body with one piece neck. With quality issues i read about in Gibson i can't see why one would want to hate on asian made Gibson (cheap labor) as long as issues

    are addressed and that is exactly what i'm doing hehe. Everything will be gutted so only wood, craftsmanship and case will be left original.

    I'm going to great length with PIOs and caps, nut and eventually better pickups, even tho i like GFS. BTW what's the neck type 60's style or ultra slim or what?

    What does OP stand for? Yes i'm very new here so give me guys so slack hehe. Happy New Year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  19. Juan Wayne

    Juan Wayne Senior Member

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    Why would you say something like this? Non-polarized capacitors are, by design and definition, identical in both directions, because they have no direction. They are made that way on purpose.

    Electrolytic, tantalum and other polarized capacitors are a different story, with their own characteristics.
     
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  20. sebass

    sebass Junior Member

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