Kit clinic-all brands- routine & fixes

Discussion in 'The Custom Shop' started by Ole'Lefty, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. w666

    w666 Senior Member

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    I dunno....I've got some mighty fine Fender necks that are perfectly flatsawn....in fact, I think they did it that way on purpose.

     
  2. Sea Ranch

    Sea Ranch Senior Member

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    Most Fender and Fender-style necks are flat-sawn. They hold up perfectly well, including under the increased string tension of a longer scale (25.5 as opposed to 24.75). Further, while many Fender necks are a single piece of maple, your kit has a rosewood fretboard laminated to it, Shaun, making it substantially more rigid.

    So, in my humble assessment, your kit will turn out just fine the way it is (shims and adjustments included, of course). If later on the neck isn't performing the way you'd like it to, hide glue joints can be undone and you can build a new neck for it. But at least give the kit a chance.

    Just MHO, YMMV, etc. :thumb:
     
  3. Ole'Lefty

    Ole'Lefty Premium Member

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    Bill-you were on hiatus during the great dust-up over the disappointing quality of the kits. If a thread has much in the way of criticism, it takes off and becomes useless for building -fixing help-so, on this one we talk of the specific problem only in terms of methodology-perhaps a one sentence bitch with the description; then on to how to fix.
     
  4. bfcg

    bfcg Senior Member

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    You are right Mike, a band wagon is not hard to start in an enviroment that appears to be very fertile ground for it.
    I just seeth when I read of charlitans and it really gets me going especially when I "know" the victims.
    I will refrain from any negative commentary from here on out and I won't get into the differences between Mahogany and maple necks.
    It is just a shame that the blank used to make that neck was obviously big enough to make a very well quarter sawn neck but the builder did not know enough to just turn it 90 degrees before cutting it.
     
  5. w666

    w666 Senior Member

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    I've posted my solution to the short truss rod problem:

    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/2262942-post640.html

    So far on my kit I've fixed three major problems:

    1. Truss rod/TRC
    2. Body binding
    3. Neck angle

    I think now I'm done with the rework, and can focus on finishing. Oh wait, there's one more....the headstock shape/size. Well, I'm just going to ignore that one....there are no other dimensions on my kit that are accurate, so why obsess over this one. Also, the tuner holes are drilled too big for the normal "Kluson style" keystone tuners, so I'm just going to use a "Grover style" instead.
     
  6. abfackeln

    abfackeln Member

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    w666, I'm right there with you - all binding has been replaced, and neck angle has been corrected (but still tweaking to get a tight fit). I added one of those vulcan veneers (the one I had was fairly thin), and it helped a lot with the truss rod nut clearance issue, but I really like your solution for getting some more threads, so thanks for sharing. Interesting that your tuner holes are too big - mine are way too small.

    On a side note, for those of you that are thinking of using one of those vulcan veneers with the Gibson logo already inlaid, I'd recommend against it. Due to the smaller dimensions of the headstock, the logo turns out looking way too large and out of place. Subsequently, mine is getting routed off today.....
     
  7. Ole'Lefty

    Ole'Lefty Premium Member

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    W666-- use the bushings that are designed to adapt the old smaller shaft to fit the larger holes. They are actually fairly cheap. I have used them. There are two sizes so check the specs carefully. Nice fix on the truss rod issue. I have the "pull" type counterbore that is like the S- Mc kit, but cheaper from McMaster Carr. Your approach was that of the independent thinking craftsman. I had already moved my TR nut position a bit deeper to lower it -and mine was drawn up against a high spot instead of a flat wood surface-thus, giving a false feeling of thightening.

    On veneers-I make my own using ebony thick veneer, then sanding from the back to reduce thickness from a bit over .050 to around .020. Typical pearl is around .050. The twenty thousandths or just a bit less will fit the overall headstock thickness and still accomodate tuner limits.

    I know it is extra work, but as you bright and angry fellows do your approaches to a fix, please add it HERE, too if you start in your own thread or the voluminous mixed-"I hate George for...... but here is how I fixed it thread" started by Frank to really be a solution bank but is now 1/2 complaining without the "curse the dark, or light the candle" willingness to move on and make the best of a bad deal.

    I FEEL COMPELLED-- to add this regarding Bill's remarks. If you have had the chance to hold an unfinished BFCG kit, the chance to measure its critical specs, to see the wonderful artistic integrity built into one---then you understand why he has problems holding off the criticism. I had mine for my "gold standard"-to compare my work. "Did I come at least close to Bill's extraordinary accuracy and quality?" If I can say yes to that question of myself, then I know I have done some credible work.[As I grew as a trial lawyer, there was one judge in my district-later our chief judge--who would humiliate lawyers in his courtroom when their work was not really excellent. It was a painful experience I experienced twice as a real "cub." After that, he was my "gold standard." I would ask myself, would Judge J. H. be proud of the work I have done here? If My head and heart and pride answered yes, then that work was cut loose in a courtroom. When he retired, at his banquet, I told him this and added-- "If you have seen me grow and if you believe I became a trial advocate who met your standards and who you were proud to judge, then most of what I am and will be is to your credit." I was deeply touched when he thanked me and offered that I had taught him, over our 30 years inter-acting with each other, some valuable lessons as well." You can imagine just how further humbled I was.]

    Over a short time, in relative terms, Bill has taught me many things about standards of luthier excellence and also generosity toward others here-lessons learned just from contemplating his work and a few "conversations." And, so, I thank you, Bill, for making my reach exceed my grasp.

    There are others here to thank, but this post is about Bill Fischer. Humbly offered, Mike
     
  8. Gothika777

    Gothika777 Senior Member

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    OMG Lord Voldamort is selling LP Kits

    Burn them!!! Don't u see they are Horcruxes
     
  9. bfcg

    bfcg Senior Member

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    Thank you mike.
    Just for the record, the animosity that may come through in my comments is never intended for the forum members or anybody else that has purchased on of these problemed kits.
    I am one of those people with a short trigger when it comes to a public injustice especially when it happens to people that I know( even if it is in a public forum).
    As far as generosity, Mike(ole' lefty) has no rival.
    I may hate the way these kits have turned out but will never withhold any assistance to anybody that I feel that my assistance could be of any help whatsoever.
    After all these kits are what they are and no amount of kvetching is gonna make them better.
     
  10. LG2

    LG2 Senior Member

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    That would be nice as you have a good knowledge on building guitars with router jigs.

    I never seen every flat sawn guitar neck fail, or would I recommend not using a guitar with a flat sawn neck especially as a kit builders first build.

    like it or not I think the kits should be used and could become very playable instrument when the neck angles are fixed. :slash:
     
  11. bfcg

    bfcg Senior Member

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    Oh how I wish Jigs were enough.
    I agree though, with some doctoring and some compromise there is no reason for any of these kits to fail as a playable instrument.
     
  12. Reverend D

    Reverend D Senior Member

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    Does acetone work on super glue? Maybe they used that, some people do?

    Regards,

    D.
     
  13. bfcg

    bfcg Senior Member

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    Acetone will help get super glue off of your fingers as long as you don't wait too long. Once the glue is cured I think acetone does more damage to surrounding areas than it does to the glue itself.
    What is it that you are trying to do?
    I have used it to thin out some thick in the bottle glue.
     
  14. emoney

    emoney Senior Member

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    Ole Lefty, thanks a bunch for starting this thread. I hope that others read and heed
    your plea to keep it as "kit focused" as possible. There are several of us who purchased
    these kits that hope to end up with a playable guitar and quite frankly, know that there
    isn't anything we can do about what's already been done. For the record, for the price
    I paid, I anticipated a $300.00 kit, so maybe I'm a little more succinct in my posts, but
    quite honestly can't get beyond the "I hate..." posts that consistently occur. I for one,
    need and appreciate your helpful hints both currently and of those to come.
    When it comes to the 'other comments', pardon me for borrowing Rehtt's quote, but;
    "Quite frankly my dear Scarlett, I don't give a damn". I (and I may be the only one)don't
    think I got "burned-horn swaggled-taken advantage of-ripped off-(insert your fav here)"
    because I would have easily wasted more than $300 burning up wood and buying and
    misusing the incorrect tools necessary to completing a body/neck to the stage at which
    I received it. Every kit I've looked at as had the disclaimer that some skills would be
    necessary to complete. Heck, if there hadn't been this history to this story, I probably
    wouldn't have even had a hiccup over neck angle or fit as I've seen so many shims in
    factory built guitars for decades. I never anticipated a Luthier Quality 1959 Les Paul
    Replica kit, because I didn't spend that kind of money. Sadly enough, the hateful
    comments have kept me at arms length of the whole forum and that has been my one
    true regret.

    Ok, I'm sorry, I've vented now and can move on. Again, thanks to all for their positive
    comments and direction and please keep them coming. "Your Honor", you've been an
    elder statesman in the best sense of the word when it comes to this situation and I,
    for one, appreciate it. FTR, you are going to be delighted once you have your knee
    replacement (pardon me for any and all assumptions) and will wonder, like buying your
    first well made guitar, why you didn't do it years ago. Prayers for the surgeon's steady
    hands and rapid recovery will be sent your way.
     
  15. bossman302

    bossman302 Senior Member

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    Well i took the plung and removed the binding on the body. Followed what w666 did on his. Hardest parts were in the waist and in the horn area but all in all wasn't to bad. If anyone needs some scrape let me know.
     
  16. Juan7fernandez

    Juan7fernandez Senior Member

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    Ok, so I finally got to fix a few of the details on my kit and I have a few pictures to share with you guys. I am 100% convinced that not only will this be a playable instrument but with some effort it will also look awesome.


    To start off I used the method of shaving the neck plane on the body, only where the fretboard meets the body and added a shim to get a tighter joint. I got the angle from a 5.6 to a 4.5 (the 0.3 on the first picture is from the plane where it was set down, so subtract the .3 from the 4.8 on the 2nd pic.)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Replaced the binding.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    I sanded the thin veneer on the headstock and applied a holly veneer. this is not only more accurate but it also fixed the clearing of the TR nut.

    [​IMG]


    I also reshaped the top carve. I felt like it was a little smooth, so I pronounced it some more by sanding it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and here she is sitting next to my Bulldog Kit.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Let me know what you guys think, or if you have any questions.
     
    dixiethedog likes this.
  17. w666

    w666 Senior Member

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    Way to go Juan7.....nice job on the rework! (nice toes, too)
     
  18. Pennstate913

    Pennstate913 Senior Member

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    juan that bulldog burst is amazing, good job on the reworks
     
  19. Dirk$Diggler

    Dirk$Diggler Senior Member

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    Your kit looks great! :thumb: It's hard to tell from the pics but the headstock size difference doesn't look like a big deal when compared to the Bullldog?
     
  20. Ole'Lefty

    Ole'Lefty Premium Member

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    Hot Damn!!!! Now we got some buildin' and justin goin on. These are going to turn out all right with group support!
     

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