Just Hired A Guitar Teacher

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons' started by frankv, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Tazz3

    Tazz3 Senior Member

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    Cool after 5 months of learning I will be talking lessons I need them I know the basic chords
    And that's what I partice and chord changes I know some riffs here and there,
    But you tube is geting nuts for lessons nobody plays the same song the same,
    Every body plays it driffrent and how do I know who is right
     
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  2. Sean0913

    Sean0913 Member

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    I'm with you. And I'm a teacher.

    Bad advice usually only costs the person that listens to it, not the person who gives it.

    It grieves me to watch people who are ignorant led off in good faith (they don't know better) by someone else who appears to know more, to a place that has little to questionable benefit, and if anything, will set them back a ways.

    That said, there can be different ways to play the same thing, especially on the guitar, since we have something called "unisons" If you play 6th string 10th fret, 5th string 5th fret, open 4th string, they are the same pitch - D. These are an example of Unisons on the guitar.

    There are different ways to play depending upon your expectations. If you want the general chords, piano vocal guitar books usually cover that. Is it what the artist actually played? Usually not, but it doesn't claim to be.

    If you want note for note, there are sometimes tab books, not necessarily for all songs. When's the last time you ran into a TAB for "September", by Earth Wind and Fire, for example? Or the Lee Ritenour scorching lead from Strawberry Letter 23?

    *crickets*

    Then there are videos, they may or may not be the actual way the artists played. But, they are interpretations on how they think it might have been played. So depending on how detailed their coverage is, you can get varied types of "instruction", and two sources may not agree.

    For example, I taught "I'm Alright" by Neil Zaza one way, and it sounds exactly like the track. I self-transcribed it with just the track itself, no outside references or TABS.

    A student later showed me a video of Neil himself teaching it, and he taught it differently but he used the exact same notes, and in many places he deviated significantly from what he did on the album track itself. Still sounded great though!

    Best,

    Sean
     
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  3. Codeseven

    Codeseven Senior Member

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    Personally, when I want to learn a song I like that there can be several ways of playing it. I'll purposely pick out several videos from different teachers/players and watch how each one of them plays/interprets that song, section by section. I'll play and compare each section and many times I'll find a much better way or style of playing it that better suites my own ability's or style. Sometimes if I'm stuck on a riff in one video, another video may explain/show that riff in a way I better understand.

    As a whole, for me, not being stuck with only one persons opinion of how to play that song makes learning it much easier more interesting.

    For example, I want to learn Bluesy Rock so currently I'm learning ZZ Top's 'La Grange'. I found the song at my usual 'go to' lesson video resources from Justin, Marty and our very own members Youtube channel 'ShutupandPlay' (and tonedr if he has the song I'm looking for). Also, I'm a member of Texas Blues Alley and have their excellent 'La Grange Song Guide' video series. They're all good instructional videos and I 'could' use any one of them to learn the song. But to me, each one brings a slightly different view of the song that the others may not have (the TXBA series alone completely dissects the song). Together there's rarely a part of a song I have a question about (now, my ability to play it is another story :) ).

    I also plan on using a custom La Grange video on Youtube to help me learn how to play Rocksmith.

    Overkill for one song? Probably, but I like to see different peoples perspectives on things.
     
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  4. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    I think its time for an update on my new guitar lessons.. Well mates. This is completely the opposite then my last teacher. As you might recall, my last teacher spent the entire lesson jamming with me.. This guy does very little playing at all.. and spends most of the lesson writing on blank fretboards things for me to do at home..

    I don't know what to think about this. I kinda miss the other teachers jamming. At least I thought I was getting my moneys worth... I mean I can look up chords shapes and scale shapes anywhere.. I have tons of books that I have studied from that has that.. and I have learned it..

    I'm frustrated guys.. tomorrow will be my 5th lesson, been going twice a week... What the hell... Someone straighten me out here.. I don't want to be chained to self learning forever..

    What should my expectations be? What should be the format for a student that has an intermediate skill level? Help!!
     
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  5. TradPro2

    TradPro2 Senior Member

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    Hi Franky,

    I give guitar lessons. From what you have said I would cancel everything with the new guy, for a while, and get back to the guy who jammed with you. You are right, you have access to all kinds of information about chords and music theory on your own. My students love it when I play with them. You are paying the agreed upon fee, you have a right to ask the teacher at the beginning of each lesson what lesson plan he has for you that day,
    what he expects to be teaching you in today's session and what his plan is for the next lesson. Too often I have students coming to me from other teachers complaining about no lesson plan, not feeling they really were engaged full time with their teacher.
    That guy that jammed with you, he sounds like a teacher I would stay with for a while!
     
  6. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Thanks for the advice. The teacher that jammed with me did just that. Jammed. No instruction on what I was doing wrong or guidence on what I should be playing next.

    So far this is the opposite. Lots of theory talk, zero jamming.

    Good grief.
     
  7. Codeseven

    Codeseven Senior Member

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    I feel for ya buddy.

    My wife and friends see how much time and effort I put into learning the guitar and how much I love playing. They know I struggle with only doing online stuff and want me to get a teacher. But your experiences, among others in the same predicament, make me dread the search for someone that I want to learn from.

    But at the same time I also realize that personal one on one instruction from somebody you click with could be immensely rewarding.

    I hope you (we) find that person one day.
     
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  8. Sean0913

    Sean0913 Member

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    Franky,

    What is it that you want to do? What are some specific needs/holes/goals that you have, that are meaningful to you as a player?


    One of the questions I like to ask people that come to me, is, "what would you like to see 3 months from today, that would make you feel that it was a productive 3 months in your development as a guitar player?"

    Best,

    Sean
     
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  9. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Sean,

    It just might be all my fault and my impatient nature. I need to settle down. Listen, practice what is presented and give it time to develop. Maybe with this approach one day soon I will have that moment when I say... Ah ahhh so that's why he had me learn or relearn those things.

    One thing I am not going to do is leave this guy. He is one of the best players I have seen and I want to learn what makes him tick.. I suppose I have to pay for that. It's also important to note that Jimi has been playing 40 years.. He often says to me.. Frank, you have to learn it before you can forget it...

    But in looking at these 2 different teachers... The first guy was more of a hands on, play by ear type.. Lets jam and maybe I will begin to rub off on you. At least the first 6 lessons went that way.

    This second guy is the type that wants to look at the structure behind what it is that is played... and in the end, that is really what I want.. I can Jam to any backing track.. but to have the foundation explained, the nuances of it all.. I think that really is what most of us hunt for... I mean I can jam the pentatonic scale my whole life and still find new sounds in it.. But I think I want a more diverse playing ability..

    Lesson today.. I'll report what happens.. I have re-learned the new 7 fingering positions of the major scale as instructed. He had me change slightly how I played or learned them. Says it's important for later on.. Then he said I should know all the different ways to play the scales and not just one pattern. More to follow

    Tonight he is playing out. I am going to see if I can get him to play "the thrill is gone" and record it.. Post it here.. Because it really is something to see.
     
  10. Sean0913

    Sean0913 Member

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    Keep me posted Franky - I will admit I've taken an observational conservatorship over your progress. What this means, is I'm very interested in how it goes, while at the same time, powerless to actually mitigate those things for you. I can have my hunches, suspicions and even ideas about where things are, but you're the one that has to go through them.

    On the 7 "Fingerings" are these 3 "notes per string" ones? If so, I've had people redo those too. Mainly for injury concerns and also places where the pinky was not being utilized.

    But there is also a 5 fingerings one too, Jimmy Bruno uses it and I found it to be incredibly useful for Jazz and also changing keys, "in flight" as it were. Also incredibly useful for arpeggios.

    Best,

    Sean
     
  11. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Sean,

    Thanks so much for taking an interest.. I appreciate that.. Kinda like have a "remote teacher" of sorts..

    I had my lesson on Saturday and I have to say I do understand what is happening with my course of study. It seems my teacher is setting me up with the foundation from where to build from.

    He knows I know the 5 pentatonic positions like the back of my hand.. So he has started on the Major scale positions where I did know them but not in a way that I could command their use at will... So he is reteaching me them in a "straight across" method. I Already knew the 3 note per string way and I must say the new way is really not very different. Either the G or B string now only has 2 notes.. depending.

    It was easy for me to "relearn" because It was so similar to what I knew.. He is also hammering me with chord shapes.. This he picked up when I first met him and actually told him my weaknesses..

    I have made a decision to settle into this teacher for at least a few months.. See how I progress.. Reevaluate at that time.. I think this is necessary for me. I do like his personality and I get along with him very well. I also highly respect his playing ability and want to aspire to play in his style.. His chord work is awesome. He plays rhythm guitar like hes playing leads but its with chord fills and inversions.. I love that.

    Anyway. I will blog this experience here because I want others to experience what this is like. Those that have not taken lessons yet but have considered them.. This thread might be great for them... and that's why I do it.
     
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  12. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Anyone needing a little entertainment tonight.. Starting at 8pm 6/14/15. My guitar teacher is playing a pretty cool gig.. Webcam here..

    The FishCam StageCam - Fishtales Restaurant & Nightclub

    I am sure he will be playing his Green tele.. Has a hat on.. There are 2 guitarists.
     
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  13. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Update time. So I have finally settled in with my new teacher and will be here for sometime. I'm thinking a year for sure. I have learned so much about what I knew and didn't.. Ways to think and ideas to expand on.

    Its SOOOO much better now then self learning. It is because I can ask him questions and know I will get an answer.. Instead of just watching a DVD or reading a book and being confused as to what was really taught.

    i find myself stopping him while he plays stuff to ask him.

    "what did you just do there?" Show me that..

    It is a very exciting time right now.. As i have finally gotten to a point where I feel the money I spend on instruction is worth the admission price.

    I have gotten all the Major scale shapes under my fingers and find myself moving away from the pentatonic crutch I have anyways leaned on.. Not that I don't use it.. I do, but now i am thinking about all those other notes and how to integrate them as well... Mixing Major with Minor Pentatonic and then the full scales has made my practice way more exciting. More to follow for sure.

    This morning my wife strolled into my office as I played my new BFG Modded Jet City... I was just noodling around a bit and she said..

    "did he teach you that"

    Now to you it might not seem a big deal.. But to me it did, cause that means I sound different.
     
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  14. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    Yesterdays lesson came and went like a flash. I want to ask you teachers and those in the know something. Let me see if I can get this right without confusing what I am asking.

    So I have learned the Major scale positions up the neck. Was really just a slight change from the 3 notes per string I had already been using... So here's the question. Lets take Ionian in A on the 5th fret.. What happens when I now play Dorian starting on the A 5th fret? and so on up the modes? I know so much depends on the chord progression in the background but by changing positions like that isn't that causing a key change?

    Thanks in advance...
     
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  15. donlumber

    donlumber Premium Member

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    I'm interested in the answer to this as well.
     
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  16. HogmanA

    HogmanA Senior Member

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    Look at the notes that make up the scale you are playing. The circle of fifths (in mnemonic form in my sig) may help you to remember/ organize it in your head.

    A major/ Ionian :

    Girls # (G major/ E minor has one sharp)

    Despise ## (D major/ B minor has 2 sharps)

    All ### (A major/ F# minor has 3 sharps, and so on)

    (A major = 3 sharps) which are Father Charles Goes or, FCG.


    A Dorian:

    A B C D E F# G A - one sharp. *Consult Circle of Fifths*

    = Girls = key change. (have gone from 3 sharps to 1 sharp)



    If you are using the same notes, but simply starting from a different starting note, then you are playing in a mode of that key. So in that case, if you are using the notes of A major, but starting at the B note instead of the A note - then that is Dorian, Dorian in B.

    (Hope that's not confusing - obviously disregard if so and wait for clearer response!)
     
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  17. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    So you are saying playing the second fingering form of the A major scale starting on A again is in fact Dorian and therefore there is no Key change.
     
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  18. HogmanA

    HogmanA Senior Member

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    If you are starting on A, and the scale contains the notes A B C# D E F# G# - that is A major.

    Just look at the notes in the scale you are playing. What are they?
     
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  19. frankv

    frankv What Are You Waiting For? Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    They are A Dorian with 1 sharp. Form 2 of the A major scale starting on the A and not the B note.
     
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  20. HogmanA

    HogmanA Senior Member

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    Ah, gotcha!

    this question is more difficult than the question I thought you meant.

    As far as I understand it...

    To go from A major to A Dorian is a key change. The keynote remains the same.

    Though, A Dorian is not a key, as it lacks a leading note (major 7th). A Dorian shares a key signature with G (one sharp, F#), and so can be thought of as a mode of G.
     
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